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  #31  
Old 08-16-2013, 07:36 AM
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My father was killed in a GA crash. Small plane on Santa Rosa Island, CA. Experienced professional pilot, good weather.
Sure, he coulda crashed his car on the drive to CA, but he didn't. I despise flying in any plane. Thank heavens for Xanax.

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  #32  
Old 08-16-2013, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bondavi View Post
I like! But then....you only have ONE engine. So when things go wrong....

Can this be glided up and down with ease?

If yes, then I'm sold.

A 150 can glide in with no power so easy you wouldn't believe it. As long as you have a field to put it in, there's no problem at all for even a student pilot to put it on the ground. That's why I'm not too fond of flying over a heavily congested area. If it sputters, it's tough to find a field.

That said, as long as you keep plenty of fuel on board, the chance of you ever having to do it for real is quite remote.

As I said earlier, if you keep plenty of fuel, don't fly into the clouds and don't do anything stupid, the chance of dying in a small plane is very slim. Things DO happen, however, to the best of planes and best of pilots just as they do in automobiles, motorcycles, etc.

The noise issue has always seemed quite interesting to me. There may be some airports that were built in the midst of a group of houses, but if so, a handful or less. People go and build a house in an airport traffic pattern, an airport that was already there, and THEN complain about the noise. The airport was there first folks.

BTW, sorry to hear about your Dad Chivito.
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  #33  
Old 08-16-2013, 09:48 AM
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i grew up in the late 60's and thru the 70's my dad had a cessna 170b.just about every sunday we would fly off to some other area airports for flight breakfasts.for some reason the pancakes just tasted better there.i logged alot of air time in the back seat of that plane.i missed getting my license by about 2 yrs as he sold the plane.ins,hanger space and time were just not feasible anymore.i still miss that plane to this day.
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  #34  
Old 08-16-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post

That said, as long as you keep plenty of fuel on board, the chance of you ever having to do it for real is quite remote.

BTW, sorry to hear about your Dad Chivito.
I seem to remember one of the first guidelines regarding flying was, "The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire".
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  #35  
Old 08-16-2013, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
As I said earlier, if you keep plenty of fuel, don't fly into the clouds and don't do anything stupid, the chance of dying in a small plane is very slim. Things DO happen, however, to the best of planes and best of pilots just as they do in automobiles, motorcycles, etc.

The noise issue has always seemed quite interesting to me. There may be some airports that were built in the midst of a group of houses, but if so, a handful or less. People go and build a house in an airport traffic pattern, an airport that was already there, and THEN complain about the noise. The airport was there first folks.
Well, I guess we're in the clear then.

I'm regularly amazed at the stubborn clamor for the 'jet packs we were promised.' Yeah, what could go wrong? A bunch of people flying about somewhat at random with a load of explosive fuel strapped to their back.

We'll not be able to rid the world of any and all danger, but the danger of small planes, sometimes with haphazard maintenance histories, falling on people and their homes unexpectedly is one danger that strikes me as one that can be done away with.

Large jetliners can also fall on people and their homes but at least large resources back up engineering and maintenance on such things.
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  #36  
Old 08-16-2013, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
We'll not be able to rid the world of any and all danger, but the danger of small planes, sometimes with haphazard maintenance histories, falling on people and their homes unexpectedly is one danger that strikes me as one that can be done away with.
Seriously? You're probably ten-thousand times more likely to get hit by a speeding car crossing the street. Let's do away with private cars and make everyone take the bus or train first.

Even if a small plane crashes, the chances of it killing anyone other than the people aboard (who chose to be there) are vanishingly remote.

Furthermore, if we reformed liability for the general aviation industry, we'd end up with more modern tech flying around. Things like aero-diesel engines running on jet fuel (no ignition system to fail and more available higher-quality fuel), electronic control systems, etc.
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  #37  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
The noise issue has always seemed quite interesting to me. There may be some airports that were built in the midst of a group of houses, but if so, a handful or less. People go and build a house in an airport traffic pattern, an airport that was already there, and THEN complain about the noise. The airport was there first folks.
Interesting? You don't need to be near an airport to be assaulted by the noise of a small plane. I was working today at a house in North Oakland, might be Berkelely, not sure, near 58th and Telegraph. It was one small plane after another overhead, with a few choppers in the mix (I gather pilots don't like the chopper appellation). Bleeping annoying. It was a hot day - windows open, I could barely hear any auto traffic as she's a block away from Telegraph but you could hear every small plane or CHOPPER for several minutes each. After a couple hours of steady noise, it quieted down, this about 6 pm.

The lady said she's wondered more than once if she's on some flight path. There are no airports anywhere close to her house.

Oh but hey, it's like their right to pollute the world with noise cuz flying is so rad, dude.
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  #38  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
Seriously? You're probably ten-thousand times more likely to get hit by a speeding car crossing the street. Let's do away with private cars and make everyone take the bus or train first.
When I cross the street, I look both ways.

Plane crashes into Conn. homes, 4-6 believed dead - CBS News
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  #39  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
When I cross the street, I look both ways.

Plane crashes into Conn. homes, 4-6 believed dead - CBS News
And this happens every day, right?

Typical Luddite denizen of Berzerkley, sorry to say. Why ban flying instead of supporting development of cleaner/safer light planes? Maybe in 20 years people will be flying electric light planes powered by fuel cells...
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  #40  
Old 08-17-2013, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Mike D View Post
I seem to remember one of the first guidelines regarding flying was, "The ONLY time you have too much fuel is when you are on fire".
Well, yeah as long as there so much that it gives you an aft CG. That would kill you as dead as a fire.
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  #41  
Old 08-17-2013, 07:56 AM
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Every, single airplane accident is reported on the news. Almost everyone of those reports is written by someone who knows absolutely nothing of what they are talking about. If the same were to happen with auto accidents, there would not only be no time for anything else on TV and radio, but most people would be scared to death to go near the death traps. On the road there are plenty of idiots sizzling by you a few feet away. In the air you pretty much have the "road" to yourself. Mid air crashes are extremely rare.

As long as I'm not flying over a metropolitan area with no open fields, or at night, I feel much safer in the air than driving down the road.

If you want to talk about something dangerous, lets talk about the accident rate among the mid lifers never having ridden a motorcycle before and succumbing to the Harley craze. We've lost the lives of three people at work in the last few years in this category.
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  #42  
Old 08-17-2013, 09:13 AM
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We live near an airport and I can certainly agree on the irritation caused by noise pollution. That is imo, only a symptom of a larger issue.

The real problem with small planes is that they have become the number 1 contributor of lead poisoning. Accordingly, most small planes burn avgas, which is leaded fuel. While unleaded avgas is sold in Europe and Japan, it is not sold in North America.

The EPA has only recently started to monitor lead emissions from 15 airports across the nation, which doesn’t even rise to a half-hearted gesture, imo.

Small Airplanes A Major Source Of Lead Pollution
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  #43  
Old 08-17-2013, 10:42 AM
elchivito's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Air&Road View Post
Every, single airplane accident is reported on the news. Almost everyone of those reports is written by someone who knows absolutely nothing of what they are talking about. If the same were to happen with auto accidents, there would not only be no time for anything else on TV and radio, but most people would be scared to death to go near the death traps. On the road there are plenty of idiots sizzling by you a few feet away. In the air you pretty much have the "road" to yourself. Mid air crashes are extremely rare.

As long as I'm not flying over a metropolitan area with no open fields, or at night, I feel much safer in the air than driving down the road.

If you want to talk about something dangerous, lets talk about the accident rate among the mid lifers never having ridden a motorcycle before and succumbing to the Harley craze. We've lost the lives of three people at work in the last few years in this category.
No argument there. I've been resisting the motorcycle urge for about 10 years. I know good and well I'd kill myself, or worse.
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04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
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  #44  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by link View Post
We live near an airport and I can certainly agree on the irritation caused by noise pollution. That is imo, only a symptom of a larger issue.

The real problem with small planes is that they have become the number 1 contributor of lead poisoning. Accordingly, most small planes burn avgas, which is leaded fuel. While unleaded avgas is sold in Europe and Japan, it is not sold in North America.

The EPA has only recently started to monitor lead emissions from 15 airports across the nation, which doesn’t even rise to a half-hearted gesture, imo.

Small Airplanes A Major Source Of Lead Pollution
Give me a break!

There are so few piston engine planes in the sky that all of them put together burn very little fuel. In addition to that, many of them are
stc'd to burn Mogas just like you burn in your car.

Number one cause of lead poisoning. That is the biggest crock of shlt I've read on here in a long time and that's saying a lot. Old leaded paint causes more health risk.
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  #45  
Old 08-17-2013, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by spdrun View Post
And this happens every day, right?

Typical Luddite denizen of Berzerkley, sorry to say. Why ban flying instead of supporting development of cleaner/safer light planes? Maybe in 20 years people will be flying electric light planes powered by fuel cells...
Ah, the Luddite label, had to be thrown in the mix sooner or later. Among some, many who adore the workings of their own mind is a belief that any and every thing mankind concocts is good and proper just because. Next up, let's mortgage our future so we can put a few people on Mars where they will struggle to not be squeezed out of a pinhole like toothpaste out of a tube. Make that a tube of toothpaste stepped on by an elephant. Oh but hey, it would be so cool to be the first person on Mars and stuff.

I don't recall my saying that flying should be banned. I'm stuck with it for the duration. Rather than clamor for a ban on flying, I'd rather work on something that has a chance of succeeding, such as curing cancer or establishing lasting peace and brotherhood between Sunni and Shia.

However, I still have the right to observe that a small minority of citizens regularly pollute the soundscape of our cities because they, like, need to get somewhere in a hurry. These are weird times we live in.

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Last edited by cmac2012; 08-17-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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