Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 11-18-2015, 05:40 PM
Simpler=Better's Avatar
Ham Shanker
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 2,544
Am I the only one who hasn't had trouble with E10?

All of my small engines are fine...

None of my fuel injected cars have had trouble...

I rejetted my 440cc bike for E85, slightly harder to start when chilly (couple extra turnovers) but nothing beyond that.

__________________
$60 OM617 Blank Exhaust Flanges
$110 OM606 Blank Exhaust Flanges
No merc at the moment
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 11-18-2015, 06:04 PM
is thinning the herd
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
I should add; he always used E10 when pure gas was available, just a bit more expensive. And the fuel lines made in '92-93 were not made to withstand ethanol. If you doubt me on that last one, do some research and convince yourself.
I'm well aware of the properties of Ethanol and how it can affect older compounds of rubber.

However to say "he put E10 in it and it immediately blew up" is scapegoating. Those lines were old, hard, and brittle long before it blew up.

I run E10 in my 190SL. No instant explosions yet.

Simpler=Better, essentially everyone in America runs E10 without trouble. I've never had any issues.

Buddy was flipping a Flex-Fuel Ford one winter, we ran E85 out of curiosity. It was a huge pain to start below freezing. Ran E85 in a flex fuel rated GLK350 in the summer and noticed no difference other than the proscribed drop in MPG.
__________________
68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 11-18-2015, 06:28 PM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpler=Better View Post
Am I the only one who hasn't had trouble with E10?
I've had precisely one problem that might have been E10 related - a fuel tank seal on a Toro/Suzuki mower. Replaced with Viton and had no issues.

Both my gas vehicles run fine, even though I may not drive them for months at a time.

All my small engines run fine. Anything modern built is designed to handle E10, small engine or otherwise.

I do notice E10 goes bad faster. Keep fresh fuel in it and no issues at all. Hence my desire to use non-E gas in my small engines, the generators especially may sit for 10 months at a time. I still haven't had an issue, shut off the fuel or drain the tank and run it dry for storage.

I know E10 gets a bad rap, but none of it matches my experience. I even finally convinced my dad to quit using "gas line antifreeze" - just alcohol. His little bottle of wonder stuff was taking the fuel from E10 to E10.01.
__________________
617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 11-18-2015, 07:41 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,900
Being old enough to remember the transition from leaded gas, I find the nostalgia for regular unleaded to be very funny.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:11 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
All my small engines run fine. Anything modern built is designed to handle E10, small engine or otherwise.
I rented small equipment, and sold Stihl and Husqvarna; they both Warned against using E10. I'll be surprised if you can find a manufacturer that is good with it; look at it this way, if it stayed mixed that would be fine. As it is, you can get served a higher dose of Ethanol, and it won't run worth crap.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:13 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
I should add; he always used E10 when pure gas was available, just a bit more expensive. And the fuel lines made in '92-93 were not made to withstand ethanol. If you doubt me on that last one, do some research and convince yourself.
You Did see this addendum, right Paul?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:25 PM
Mölyapina's Avatar
User title not in use
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Chelmsford, Massachusetts
Posts: 4,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
You Did see this addendum, right Paul?
Seeing as that's the only portion of your post that he replied to, I would wager yes.
__________________
"Senior Luna, your sense of humor is still loco... but we love it, anyway." -rickymay ____ "Your sense of humor is still loco... " -MBeige ____ "Señor Luna, your sense of humor is quite järjetön" -Delibes

1982 300SD -- 211k, Texas car, tranny issues ____ 1979 240D 4-speed 234k -- turbo and tuned IP, third world taxi hot rod

2 Samuel 12:13: "David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the Lord.” And Nathan said to David, “The Lord also has put away your sin; you shall not die."
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 11-18-2015, 08:41 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
Arguably, he replied to my first post in this thread; if he indeed only replied to the above, then I am understandably confused.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 11-18-2015, 09:10 PM
Alain V.'s Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: KS.
Posts: 477
I've been a mechanic since 1981 and see the results of using e10 garbage fuel all the time on earlier gen vehicles.

People keep using that trash in their 1950s- 1980s mercs and it is job security for me.

I don't let that shyte anywhere near any of my vehicles.
__________________
Alain
independant MBZ tech since 1981
http://www.motorsportlegendsks.com/
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 11-18-2015, 09:54 PM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,600
http://m.stihlusa.com/faq/products/fuel/
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 11-19-2015, 08:35 AM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by OM617YOTA View Post
http://m.stihlusa.com/faq/products/fuel/
Very interesting; that's not what I remember their owners' manuals and training saying... However, you Did see all the provisions and warnings it gives, correct? ANY time you get fuel with ethanol, you have No Idea what the mixture actually is.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 11-19-2015, 10:15 AM
is thinning the herd
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 3,339
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
Arguably, he replied to my first post in this thread; if he indeed only replied to the above, then I am understandably confused.
You advised I do some research, I advise, I've done it.

So now what you are saying is knowing the dangers of E10 your friend intentionally blew up his Corrado just to save a buck! Oh my gosh.

I'm telling you, if you're going to try to make the argument that 20+ year old rubber was entirely fine until around 10% ethanol blend hit it, I disagree.

I am intimately aware of the chemistry of rubber compounds and how some chemicals can affect them. Older compounds of rubber can certainly be broken down over time by ethanol based fuels.

However, you usually have dry rotting and cracking externally long before ethanol melts a rubber hose. If you or your friend is trying to make the argument his fire was solely resultant from E10, he is covering up for the fact that he'd probably never inspected the rubber hoses on his car.

I've run E10, literally my entire life, I've never had a rubber hose melt. I think I just crested 100 cars owned.

Pure Gas won't exist for much longer, and it's already nearly impossible to find so I hope a lot of people can come to terms with its use. Going to need to get bus passes soon otherwise.

This isn't all that dissimilar from when guys in Diesel Discussion dump Synthetic oil into a 40 year old OM615 that's never been touched and was leaking like a sieve before and notice a little more leaking, and then blame all the leaks on the oil.

Unless you've been driving at something entirely different. In that case, we should just get a beer and be confused friends.
__________________
68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 11-19-2015, 01:08 PM
fahrvergnugen's Avatar
Yeah, THAT guy...
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Olathe, CO
Posts: 692
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
So now what you are saying is knowing the dangers of E10 your friend intentionally blew up his Corrado just to save a buck! Oh my gosh.
Where did I say that? The kid was ignorant in using E10, he did it to save money, Not Realizing the Consequences. I became aware of the danger with the MTBE scare in California; Many older cars were going up in flames because it was corroding rubber hoses left and right. I saw similar experiences with E10 online, and decided long ago to not use it in my '80s VWs. It robbed power too, so what is the point?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
I'm telling you, if you're going to try to make the argument that 20+ year old rubber was entirely fine until around 10% ethanol blend hit it, I disagree.
If you read what I wrote, that's not what I said. You may have Taken that from what I wrote, but that's not my problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
I am intimately aware of the chemistry of rubber compounds and how some chemicals can affect them. Older compounds of rubber can certainly be broken down over time by ethanol based fuels.
I'm glad we can agree on something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
However, you usually have dry rotting and cracking externally long before ethanol melts a rubber hose. If you or your friend is trying to make the argument his fire was solely resultant from E10, he is covering up for the fact that he'd probably never inspected the rubber hoses on his car.
A good point; did I inspect his car before this happened? Of course not. Since he was ignorant of the dangers of E10 damage, not only with the rubber, but with relation to the damage from knock and ping, I have no doubt that he probably did not carefully look over his car regularly enough. I think he was more of a 'driver' than a 'mechy type'.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
I've run E10, literally my entire life, I've never had a rubber hose melt. I think I just crested 100 cars owned.
Looks like I am older than your are, and my experience is different. While I've only owned something in the high twenties, does your experience naturally trump my own? I worked at a VW dealership for 5 years, and have worked closely with and for an independent shop for 25, does that mean I shouldn't listen to what you have to say on this matter? I don't think so... Now, to the point; what age of vehicles? How long did you run them? Did you Only ever use E10? What nation of manufacture did most of them come from?

Vehicles made since flexfuel cars came on line are much more compliant to ethanol, but of course they use something other than rubber for their fuel lines, don't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
Pure Gas won't exist for much longer, and it's already nearly impossible to find so I hope a lot of people can come to terms with its use. Going to need to get bus passes soon otherwise.
Incorrect; there are states out there that demand pure gas, and you know as well as I do that as long as there is a demand, things won't change, UNLESS the government jumps in and does something stupid.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
This isn't all that dissimilar from when guys in Diesel Discussion dump Synthetic oil into a 40 year old OM615 that's never been touched and was leaking like a sieve before and notice a little more leaking, and then blame all the leaks on the oil.
I'm not in that camp; as I write this, I am Hoping to kill a number of leaks soon, so that I CAN run synthetic... I'll do a mix first and see how it goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPaul View Post
Unless you've been driving at something entirely different. In that case, we should just get a beer and be confused friends.
I'll vote for that; the first round is on me!

EDIT To add, I spoke to the mechanic at the store I worked at; he offered the salient point that no, they Won't turn E10 down since they would certainly risk sales. However, anyone in that business is wisely advised to avoid it, just as the warnings in that blurb you posted demonstrate.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------------------

1998 VW Cabrio
2001 Audi SomeRoad A/T (no air suspension)
2003 Audi DeadRoad M/T (no vroom, for later)
2002 Audi NoRoad A/T (nothing under the hood, being rebuilt)
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 11-20-2015, 12:05 AM
Mad Scientist
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,600
Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen View Post
Very interesting; that's not what I remember their owners' manuals and training saying... However, you Did see all the provisions and warnings it gives, correct? ANY time you get fuel with ethanol, you have No Idea what the mixture actually is.
Yep, I saw the warnings. Make sure the fuel's fresh and not separated and all that, all of which I wholeheartedly agree with.............and which I've not had a single problem with.

Ethanol mix in your area might differ from tank to tank and station to station, but around here it's been consistent. Pretty sure by law it must be 10% and that such things are tracked just as carefully as all the other aspects of gasoline.

I run a Stihl year-round supplying firewood for the house. Tune by ear, so it's four stroking at WOT out of the cut and smooths out when the chain hits the wood. I haven't noticed any difference and haven't had to retune in several years despite buying two stroke gas year round. This would seem to indicate no great difference in fuels.
__________________
617 swapped Toyota Pickup, 22-24 MPG, 50k miles on swap
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 11-20-2015, 12:09 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 17,385
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alain V. View Post
I've been a mechanic since 1981 and see the results of using e10 garbage fuel all the time on earlier gen vehicles.

People keep using that trash in their 1950s- 1980s mercs and it is job security for me.

I don't let that shyte anywhere near any of my vehicles.
I remember when E10 was first used. It was in the later 80's.

Chrysler was the first to publish anything about a problem because the seals in their carbs was not made to withstand E and suddenly everyone with an older Dodge was needing their carb rebuilt.

So the oil companies went to MBTE which didn't eat up the older rubber but was found to destroy groundwater supplies.

So back to the E they went. And owners of older cars?

BEWARE! Some cars can take it and some can't.

And Mercedes don't seem to have a problem with it. And while this is just a guess on my part I think that might have to do with the worldwide market Mercedes has. Some places in the world have very low octane gas and owners juice it up with homemade brew.

This may not be common now but I have seen it with my own eyes back in the 60's. If is it carbon based it can be turned into fuel and some of it is very unfriendly to Buna-n. So Mercedes were built to take what their third world owners could throw at them.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page