Is to be responsible with your animals be they pets or food / pelt farm animals .

I highly agree with this sentiment : "What really needs to happen, is people need to be more responsible for their pets so they stop overpopulating, stop going to breeders every time they get a dog, and not getting a dog on a whim and then deciding, "Oh, it's just not working out anymore." " .

All my pets have been rescues and I take *very* good care of them ~ no one has even been bitten/chased /whatever by any animal of mine .

Agreed, some here have a warped view of reality concerning animals Vs. Humans, that's a sad thing .

Being forced to MOVE because your neighbors refuse to be responsible care takers is wrong on several levels

__________________
-Nate
1982 240D 408,XXX miles
Ignorance is the mother of suspicion and fear is the father

I did then what I knew how to do ~ now that I know better I do better

I have to wear ear plugs to block out the loud non-stop BARK BARK BARK just to go out and pull weeds or do any gardening in the back yard.

Tell you what, you come over to my house for morning coffee and conversation. We'll sit in the backyard so you can experience what it is like to not be able to not hear yourself think, much less carry on a civil conversation over coffee with the neighbor's dog's non-stop BARK BARK BARK BARK.

After a day or two, I believe you would recommend that I MOVE out of this place ASAP.

I believe that somewhere in their sick minds, the neighbors believe the non-stop barking keeps would-be home burglars away. Even if someone DID break into their house, the rest of the neighborhood is so used to hearing their dogs bark they wouldn't think anything was wrong.

Oh, those silly dogs are barking again? Turn the television up louder Margaret!!!

I told you to get a pet tiger. Those dogs would be very quiet or else.

No, I do not believe in animals as food. There is no justifiable reason for me to keep food animals, or eat animals at all, for that matter.

There are no animal products in the food I feed my dogs. My dogs have been on a vegan diet for nearly 14 years, and have been in better than average health, other than the oldest one (who is at least 16) now starting to slow down, and the other dog having valley fever, which is a desert disease she had when I got her. She was a bag of bones then, but has filled in nicely and is doing pretty well other than swelling in her front left ankle joint because that's where the fungus is concentrated, so she has been on anti-fungal medication since I've had her. Many dogs die from this illness, so I am thankful she has lasted so long with it.

Dogs are actually omnivores and thrive on a vegan diet (as long as you don't feed them just lettuce). They can eat meat, but don't have to. The main ingredients in the food I buy them are: brown rice, oatmeal, barley, peas, and potato. A lot of common dog foods are nothing but meat scraps that are unfit for human consumption with corn meal as filler. Ever wonder where all the bodies of the cats and dogs that are euthanized go? Sometimes they are burned, but a lot of shelters sell the bodies to pet food companies and it winds up in the dog food as "animal digest", so your pet ends up cannibalising other pets... pretty disgusting.

It's not uncommon for dogs to be allergic to at least one type of meat. Some dogs are actually allergic to all types of meat, which can manifest in patches of fur falling out and skin irritation.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

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1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

Dogs that attack people had the capacity to be good pets, but something went wrong along the way, and it has 100% to do with the person who was supposed to be responsible for their care. Now the dog and the victim are the ones that suffer while the person who had the responsibility of preventing it is not punished and will likely repeat the pattern.

The person who was supposed to be caring for the dog should be held accountable, have legal action taken against them, and should be banned from having pets, as clearly they aren't responsible enough.

I completely agree that dangerous dogs should not be roaming about, causing a public safety issue. If the dogs had been properly cared for and kept enclosed, the problem wouldn't exist in the first place. Once the problem starts happening, action needs to be taken against the person responsible for the dog's care. If it's deemed that the dog cannot stay with the person, the dog should be rehomed. If the dog is dangerous, the dog should be rehabilitated until behavioral issues are addressed, and then the dog should be placed only in a home where the new caretaker is aware of the potential issues and may be kept away from children and other animals. If the dog's behavior is too far gone, then there may be no option other than to euthanize them.

I understand that it can be nearly impossible to rehabilitate problem dogs because of pet overpopulation. Once again, this is a problem that starts with humans, and animals end up suffering for it.

I generally believe in letting the law take its course, but also know that our laws aren't perfect and can in fact be very flawed, so taking the law into one's own hands might be the most effective way to accomplish a result at times. You just have to weigh the outcomes.

With your father beating up the owner of that dog, maybe that was the best way to handle it at the time, as it seemed to work. It would be harder to get away with it in today's world (and what if the owner was a woman, how to resolve it, then?), but I guess the point is that the owner of the dog should be held accountable if they are letting their dog roam free and the dog is attacking someone, and the law may not always do an effective job of this.

As for Pitbulls, they are perfectly capable of being energetic, friendly, and good family dogs. Where they go wrong, is that lots of people get them because they want a tough-looking, muscly dog. Many got abused or involved in dog-fighting, in higher numbers proportionately to other dog breeds. They typically end up in low-income areas where they are not properly cared for.

I suppose by that same logic we can also call blacks a problem because of statistics. But the truth is that they are not inferior nor problematic by nature. In fact, we have seen that they are every bit as capable of being great people and contributing phenomenally to society, so it's stupid to pre-judge someone based on race, just like it's stupid to pre-judge a dog based on the breed.

Also, any problem with black culture started because of the way Americans treated them. First, they were kidnapped, forced to be slaves (those that survived the ship ride), finally freed (because of activism), but then treated as less than human and segregated from the rest of society for many years. No wonder, then, that crime statistics would be higher for blacks than whites. Even then, many of the greatest people to ever live have been black. Discrimination is stupid.

With problem Pitbulls, look at how they have been raised and cared for. Most Pitbulls seem to come from low-income homes and people that just don't care, or think it's fun to watch their dogs fight. So, no wonder statistics for Pitbulls are going to be worse than other breeds.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

Right, people want to punish the dogs, but it's the caretaker who needs to be punished. A person may be afraid of fallback, but I would suggest getting other concerned people in the area to band together and report the problem all at once, as it's going to be more difficult for that person to then try to ruin everyone in the neighborhoods' careers.

It is indeed very wrong for an irresponsible person to make someone else feel forced to move out of an area. There definitely needs to be more accountability and action taken against people that simply don't care. I guess that's a decision one has to make, though--stay and fight, or just leave the situation. I suppose that a lot of that decision depends on how much one otherwise likes the area.

I spent several years in Utah and one thing that would enrage me is people who thought it was acceptable to leave their dogs chained up or locked up in pens outside at night in the winter, thinking their fur was enough to keep them warm. In reality, they would freeze to death and then they'd just get another dog.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

Scavengers you mean.

Meh
With human meddling youve managed to keep dogs alive on a non meat diet.

The healthiest dogs ive ever seen were at a wolf rescue facility, where they were fed exactly what the wolves eat in the wild. The wolves were fed dead sheep, sometimes horse, sometimes deer. Dogs would get a portion. Lean, gleaming predatory dogs in fantastic health. All they did was run and eat raw meat.

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You've changed your answer from carnivores to scavengers now? I do mean omnivores, though dogs will eat whatever they have to in a survival situation, and often anything that is offered them.

Domestic dogs are a product of human meddling, anyway. I have not only kept my dogs alive, but in better than average health. Bramble, a Border Collie, lived to 27 years old on a vegan diet and held the world record for the world's oldest dog at the time. Knowing many other healthy dogs on a vegan diet, I would say that they are not only just kept alive, but are thriving.

Allowing a dog to be active is also very beneficial to their health.

Speaking of wolves, one of the wolf sanctuaries (I'm trying to remember the name of it) fed their wolves a vegan diet because they found they were less aggressive and better-tempered for visitors that would come by to pet them.

Anyway, both my dogs and I have been thriving on a vegan diet, other than my sleeping disorder (which I've had since birth and doctors have done much testing, all the results show a healthy person, no deficiencies in my blood tests, and say my condition is a genetic anomaly I will have for life), my oldest dog starting to slow down (due to old age and not as much activity as he used to have--I need to exercise him more once it's not so hot here, and I admit Arizona isn't a very good place to have dogs), and my other dog having had valley fever since before I adopted her.

There's no reason for me to inflict pain and suffering on an animal, so I will simply not do it. I know that some people simply don't care about any living being that's not a close friend or family, or pet. I just hope one day these people will realize that other lives have value, regardless of how much use they are to them.

If humans valued the lives of animals they never see, imagine how much humans would value other human lives.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

Have to weigh in here; sometimes we all tend to ignore the obvious. All dogs are descendants of the wolf. That said, what do wolves eat out in the wild? They sure don't eat strawberries and cauliflower!

Take look at those teeth, they were designed to tear flesh.

True, but there is no reason why humans and their dogs can't live and thrive on a vegan diet. Neither humans nor their dogs are in a survival situation where they HAVE to eat meat or animal products. So, this poses the question: Why consume animal products that cause horrible pain, suffering, and oppression to animals when it's not necessary?

So, when faced with an option--to inflict harm and suffering, or to not--why would we choose to cause harm just because we can? I can't think of any reason that isn't selfish or dismissive.

A predatory animal in the wild killing for food has justification if it absolutely has to in order to survive. It's still tragic for the animal which becomes the victim. But, it doesn't justify our situation one bit if we kill animals only for taste, pleasure, convenience, or because of cultural tradition.

It's pretty cute--my oldest dog would actually stand up on his hind legs and pull down apples and pears from trees and would eat them. I just was careful to make sure he didn't eat any of the core or pit. When I would take him on walks in Washington, he would wander over to blackberry bushes and he would actually eat the blackberries off of the bushes and would end up with berry stains on his lips.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

As usual with this kind of fruitcakery, the elastic definition changes quite a bit when they encounter a destructive pest or dangerous animal. Suddenly its ok to do something about them.

Rats and mice come to mind

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This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.

Answer to what question? Dogs are carnivores AND scavengers. Not an either or situation, which is obvious to anyone who understands those defintions. I agree they will eat anything to survive, a trait all animals share. On that list is humans. You will find many an animal in the wild kingdom does not have your tender sensibilites on the value of other animals lives.

Like most of these "i dont eat meat" arguments, it starts from the comfortable position of being at the top of the food chain. You have the luxury to choose a lifestyle that appeals to you from that lofty position, built on milennia of humans hunting and killing prey for food.

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Actually, what I am saying follows perfect logic. Don't cause harm if it's not necessary--and this is how I live my life. Defending oneself and keeping oneself alive are justifiable reasons to cause harm, because they are necessary to one's survival. If there is no necessity, don't cause harm.

What isn't logical is humans selecting which animals they love, and which ones they harm or eat, as can be seen by differences in culture--as well as harming and killing animals when it's not necessary.

Also, if I encountered a rat or mouse in my home, I would capture it and let it loose outside, well away from the house.

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles

You initially stated that dogs are carnivores. I corrected you by stating that they are actually omnivores. Then you responded by saying that I mean they are scavengers. True, an animal can be both a scavenger and a carnivore, but dogs are not carnivores--were it not so, they could not survive and thrive without meat.

You are right that many animals in the wild won't share my "sensibilities"--animals tend to lack the moral agency that we have as humans. Because we have moral agency, we are obligated to use it. Animals in the wild will also eat their young and do many other horrible things, but this doesn't mean that we should follow their example!

We may be near the top of the "food chain", but I don't think any of us would fare well if we were thrown into a cage with a lion, or into shark-infested water. Also, that's a good point--we have the ability to choose to eat meat, or abstain from it, so I would say, with us having that choice, why would we then still choose to cause harm to others?

Even if eating meat was a necessity for our ancestors (this is up for debate), it's not a necessity now, so why continue now? Can't we evolve and live more compassionately?

I hope I am not coming across too aggressively. I am passionate about this. My intention isn't to belittle or harass anyone, but I believe in standing up for those who are vulnerable and living to high standards of ethics, and this topic is a pretty big deal. Even if a person doesn't like animals, though, they should at least respect their right to live.

I can't stop animals in the wild from being killed by predators, but I can make sure that I personally don't cause harm to animals, as much as practical and possible, and I can enjoy good health while contributing less to the destruction of our planet than someone who consumes animal products.

I know some of us just don't care, but when many people see the harm they are causing to animals, themselves, and the environment, they wake up and want to do something about it. Veganism has risen 600% in the past three years in the United States. With the internet and social media, the public no longer has to be in the dark and fooled by propaganda perpetuated by the meat and dairy industries. Knowledge is power.

Some of us will probably never care about anyone but ourselves and those nearest us, but for those of us who do care, there are things to be done!

__________________
Stop paying for animal enslavement, cruelty, and slaughter. Save your health and the planet. Go vegan! I did 18 years ago. https://challenge22.com/

DON'T MESS WITH MY MERCEDES!


1967 W110 Universal Wagon, Euro, Turbo Diesel, Tail Fins, 4 Speed Manual Column Shift, A/C
1980 W116 300SD Turbo Diesel, DB479 Walnut Brown, Sunroof, Highly Optioned, 350,000+ Miles