Not really surpised about that vehicle
 

Yours may be the most durabile Mercedes ever. It still had the old attention to quality. Also, it had galvanizing. That was the one misssing feature that did in my W126. The rust got it. My W126 had the same engine that is in your car, and it was also a tank. Never had any serious problems with it. Trust me, the new one aren't the same. As my earlier posts states, marketing took over in the early '90's. That is always a deathknell for quality in the auto industry. The marketers quickly learn that you can lower quality for about 10 years before you get into trouble. Most of them consider a success to sell a car at the same price, produce it cheaper, and make more money. Eventually it catches up with you. they are offering $0 down/ $290 month leases here to get the cars off the lot. Brand equity has been burned and it is time to pay the piper aka 1980 for the US auto industry.

Am planning to purchase a new car in Nov. Dealer sells both MB & BMW. What to buy? An E500 or a 540i. Looking for least problems as I don't relish trips back to dealer (75 miles) for warranty work. My 97 C280 has never missed one beat but from reading this forum I get the same feeling about these cars as I do about the situation in Iraq. What say you experts?

I'm getting to think they are too troublesome...
 

My '98's A/C has crapped out and it is looking like the evaporator is leaking. That's a big job, probably one which would drive a gas powered '98 to the junkyard or at least to sell at ebay since the cost of having it done is a good percentage of the car's value.

For a diesel it is still worth fixing but I guess I don't understand why they think it is necessary to bury components so deep in the dash that it takes 15 man hours to remove and replace them when they know from their recent history that these parts only last a relatively short time, much shorter time than the rest of the car will last.

The AC evaporators in my '64 and '72 and '88 are all original and still going strong. When they went from copper to aluminum they started having problems (in the 90's) but they continued to design them so that every component between the firewall and the seats has to be removed to repair it.

I'm just hoping that after I fix my A/C that something else major doesn't go wrong...I love the cars but would never buy another new one that wasn't under warranty. The lease on our '04 expires the same time as the warranty...it's probably going to be my last MB.

The Lexus and Infinity and Accura are SO much better in quality than MB today it is hard to be loyal.

Here! Here!
 

:) "Patience is a virtue enjoyed by few":book:

Well, I've started going to an independent mechanic because at least when something is fixed and then breaks again within a week he's good about trying again without charging me. I do get concerned that he doesn't have all the computers that the dealer has to solve problems, but after all they weren't able to solve the problem WITH all the computers, nicht wahr? He also says that the W140's are too bloody complicated for their own good (HAL: "I don't understand what you mean Dave").


BTW: as many problems as I've had with my S500 it STILL is light years ahead of the 735i that I had before I gave up on BMW and went with Mercedes-Benz!

You are at this site because .....?
 

I'm assuming all those of you defending Mercedes to the death about not needing many repairs, come to this site to spread good cheer about Mercedes? Face it, they have too many problems for what is supposed to be a top quality car. They're a good car, but they're not a GREAT car.

Either that or, I will make a mental note to myself, that cars that break more are better than those that don't.

1991 300d, 94k

Holy sarcasm batman.
 

you know what they say about assuming.

I just am a candid guy that does all my own maintenance.

Now have 115,000 on my ML320.

I have replaced more parts than my acura's and honda's for sure. But it drives better and I dont see rust over the rear fender wells like my last couple Honda's.

I am on my first MB and certainly not the last one... The 2000 SLK 230 has 40k miles and what I find with Mercedes Benz is that they are truly a well built machine however they do by all means need to have good preventive maintenace done to them just due to the nature precission machines. I have worked on many German built machines (non automotive) and found this to be true with thoses compared to others. Yes as a Benz owner it will cost some pocket change plus a little more to keep it running well...... ahhh the pleasure of driving the Mercedes offsets that so well.


2000 Black on Black SLK 230 with 5 speed manual transmission (4 years and going)

1996 Black Land Rover Dicovery with 5 speed manual transmission (6 years)
:cool:

I run a ford fairmont 1997 ad a 89 190e one on fordsure and the other on the merc equivalent.Both have about 138000Ks. The Ford has cost a lot more over time but the Merc has been more frustrating with strange faults which take ages to sort.The roads in New Zealand are tarseal and have a lot of camber which makes setting up the steering and suspension tricky, right onthe limits.The 190 idles far smoother than the ford even though its a 6.Some of the trouble appears to be over complication.
Allen

"I am on my first MB and certainly not the last one... The 2000 SLK 230 has 40k miles and what I find with Mercedes Benz is that they are truly a well built machine however they do by all means need to have good preventive maintenace done to them just due to the nature precission machines. I have worked on many German built machines (non automotive) and found this to be true with thoses compared to others. Yes as a Benz owner it will cost some pocket change plus a little more to keep it running well...... ahhh the pleasure of driving the Mercedes offsets that so well."

MBLR, I'm sincerely happy for you and I wish you well with your car. I always hate to beat a dead horse but I have to ask what you mean. You said it's a well built and precision machine that requires good preventive maintenance. OK, what do you mean? Other then the advertising you read...SPECIFICALLY what makes it a well built machine as compared to an American built truck, for instance. Also, what SPECIFICALLY are you doing to make the preventive maintenance happen? Of course, you have a 7 year old car that has averaged less then 6K miles a year. How do you even feel qualified to answer the question? You have taken a deep breath and drunk deeply from the MB coolaid. You have no way of knowing anything about the current quality control problems that MB suffers from and has even been acknowledged by it's president. Have you read any of the 40 something pages on this thread? Have you seen very many threads that even get this long? I'm thinking that would be a clue. So back to the original question and I've asked it before....

What GOOD PREVENTIVE maintenance am I missing? I have fresh oil and filters in every hole including the tranny which Mercedes promised required NO maintenance at all. What would you tell someone who just spent thousands to replace it? What PM did he miss for that? How about the guy who takes his family to the movie and has the spring perch fail causing him to hit a bridge pillar at 60 MPH. What PM did he miss? How about the sucker who bought into the MB quality scam and was unable to get his sunroof to close causing damage to the interior and forcing him to find an open store that sold tarps until the rain stopped? Did he miss some PM I don't know about? He should have kept the tarp he had to buy on his way to work when his lowest bidder window regulator failed and he had to park it in the rain and hope nothing was stolen while he was at work. See any PM he missed? How about when he had the shop where he gets the car detailed show him the rust that was developing below the trim pieces? That must have been embarrassing. Did he forget some PM I don't know about? I could go on and on but you can just do a search and you'll have plenty of reading. In the meantime, I'll be waiting for you to tell me what preventive measure would cover ANY of the things I've mentioned.

I'll also be waiting for you to tell me how a marque like MB could let this happen to the brand. Again, hopefully you'll have no problems with your car. If you do, I hope you have the disposable income to throw at the problems that will start to creep up assuming you ever start to drive your car. Then your tune might change. In the meantime, I'm preparing to sell my POS. I will not be looking at newer MB's again. In the unlikely event I ever buy another MB it will actually be older then the one I have now and even that is unlikely. Once burned, twice or thrice shy.

One more thing. I don't mean to be hard on you as it might seem reading this. I don't feel like inserting a bunch of smilies and what not. I am trying to take some to task for blindly parroting the company line. That action is counter productive because nothing will change until MB gets it's act together and gets back on course. That isn't in process right now.

Well, Having only owned my 240D for a couple of months, I haven't had any repairs, but it seems like a pretty good deal unless it completely falls apart. Economical- yes: ~30mpg on the highway, $1650 for the car. Manual everything means stuff doesn't break.

If you want a different option, probably the route to take in my opinion if your not wanting a MB, is still not Japanese. I have an old '86 Lincoln Town Car with 180k miles on it. Ford 302 V8. VERY economical, believe it or not. Why? Do maintence yourself: parts on 302's are a dime a dozen, not too bad to work on when it needs it, and in 2 years of driving it, about 12k a year, the ONLY thing it needed besides gas, oil changes and fluids (leaked a bit of everything) was one alternator. I think it was the original one. A car like that will run you 1000 bones in decent condition, and will get 20 mpg on the highway, with decent power, TONS of room inside and trunk, quiet, comfortable (armchair on wheels) and dependable. Started every day last winter sitting out on the street.

troublesome.....
 

Let's see, I have had my 95 E320 for about 2 years, almost 3 yrs, bought it for about $8.5K, 82K miles, all documentation/service/etc, and more.....

Now it has 132K miles...Seems any time I take it to the shop its $400-$800.. When I first bought it I intended to do the work myself, but things haven't worked out that way :( .

Last I took it in about 60 days ago for no start...it was the coils, bam $759! ... spark plugs and cable included:rolleyes:

So i asked the shop to lmk how much I had spent as a customer.... I took that added it to a couple things I did at another shop...

All, including brakes (about $800 each time I have had to take it in for brakes), changing brakes about 2-3 times since the 82K!!!!! ... I have spent what averaged out to about $140/ month in repairs and maintainance....:eek:

That's about what I had budgeted when I bought the car , $1K-$1.2K / yrs on service and repair, but the problem is these things occur when you least expect it...

I am entertaining on just selling it, probably about $4K-$5K is what it would og for, i am guessing, with the miles... and just buy a "normal" Honda/Toyota $7-8K vehicle... figuring I am already "spending $140 a month" in repairs.. I might as well, put the $ I sell the MB for as down and finance something cheap and reliable....

Why? Its embarrasing when my g/f, who drives a 00 Ford Focus, with about 70K miles, hasn't been left stranded once in the same time period... total repairs for time period? about $500, including brakes...major problem? yeah, a/c was leaking....she got charged $250! :eek: :D

My other freind...she's got a 1991 Accord with 145K miles... problems in the last 3 yrs? Radiator, and 2-3 no start issues (fuel pump, starter, and forgot the third...)...bottom line her car has broken down less times than my MB!:eek:

Third example, 03 Civic...50K miles...no breakdowns...

I am already being eaten by $140 average on repairs... that's sad.....

Troublesome?
 

Got my 93 300E in Jun06 with 140K miles. So far, one head gasket (include valve,and chain cover leaks)$1500, trans line $220, ignition key $219, and brakes $317 (still squeaks). My repair costs is approaching the price I paid for the darn thing. :(]
My wife brought a Maxima at the same time, also at 140K miles, all she spent is $400 for a set of new tires.

This thread is still active?

Wow, either there are a lot of people that are having trouble with their MB or people just like to complain. Either case, MB's out of warranty are a costly endeavor. I've looked at all the different options for me personally and financially, it does not make sense. The cost of maintenance plus the depreciation costs will be almost as much as leasing a new car.
I've made the decision to keep my MB experience going after my car was out of warranty and thus have spent an average of $2000 - $2500 per year on maintnenance. Is it worth it? Probably not but I have too much invested in it now to sell it. I have to keep it another 3 years to make financial sense.
I just hope that there is nothing too costly in the near future (knock on wood).

Bottom line, for you guys who:

don't know how to change oil
don't know how to change brake pads
don't know how to jack up the car
don't know anything about mechanics
don't know anything about electronics
don't know anything about tools
don't know how this world works
don't want to learn how to fix your stuff when they break

Forget it.

Go to your Merecedes dealer buy something new, let them fix it for you. Or, buy something else, let this great world rob you.

Stop whining. Life is tough.

By the way, next time when you sitting in your sucker driving by a well maintained old merecedes, show your respect by raising your thumb up out of your malfunctioned window. These old Mercedes owners are the "I have the brain and I can fix it" type, not just your plain "I want it but can't fix it nor have that much money" type.

Who is "You guys" ?
 

I just turned 120,000 miles on my ML320. I did every lick of maintenance on it except warrenty work and I admit I paid to have my tires mounted.

steve

Hahahahahaha .... while I had been reading everyone's thoughts as they rolled in, the thread is much better in toto ... all the comments, when read together, are quite interesting and, well, funny ... I LOVE acehandy's well and topically constructed rant!

I also "feel your pain" when I read the horror stories of poor design, poor quality parts (remember they have to be poor quality parts to break - the OEM has the option to buy high quality - there must be a reason they didn't, right?).

We all know from the events most of us have witnessed since the Japanese got involved in building cars, that their products have increasing improved -even when they didn't have to do so to continue their domination. There are indications they, too, may be reaching a point of diminishing returns - so much so that even Toyota senior management has become concerned about how much of an "applicance" their cars have become.

If I was forced to take a car for service at $1000 a year (not just the odd year with a major repair), I would have to sell the car ...just that simple. Not because of the amount, but because of the amount relative to other brands of car. As a somewhat thoughtful consumer, I would evaluate the "what" of the repair while considering all this ... i.e. repeated electrical component replacements would be FAR more exasperating than something major that had the odd failure mode. Something like evaporators should never fail - if the rate was 1/1000 it would average perhaps for electromechanical components that could be stressed by various factors - it sounds like the rate was more like 1/10 - unacceptable on any product - and, here's the killer point to me - especially on a $100K car. My sense it that MB doesn't really warrantee well in these circumstances ... recently they sound almost evasive on quality issues ... hmmm, maybe what MB needs is a 250K mile end to end warrantee!

My advice when folks ask me about my car? Buy a used MB only if you can and like to work on your vehicles. I have and do!

How about we shift the topic to an adjacency: "How much complexity and cost is appropriate in a product?" (example - electric throttles, rear disc brakes, HUDs, double side glass, electrohydraulic rear suspensions, maytheyrotinhell single stick electronic management abominations, $2000 each headlight assemblies, $2000 brake jobs, etc ...)

stuck on the road with the e430, car wont start no matter what.
had it towed at the end. turns out the cps was shot ! people passed looking, honking... embarassing moments of owning a mercedes eh ... When was the last time lexus was stuck due to a sensor malfunctioning ? none that I have heard or read... it gets u home. mercedes... well :)

To answer your question; the last time a Lexus was stuck due to a sensor. It may not have been a sensor but I was stuck on the freeway in a 2005 LS430 due to the transmission failing. It seems as though the 2005 LS series had a faulty something or other in their trannies.

Very often, when the CPS (Crankshaft Position Sensor) is failing, the car will not operate when the CPS gets hot but will restart once it cools down. Although this is troublesome, had you known, you may have been able to avoid the tow.

In reality, how many people know about such things?
Most people just want to drive from point A to B without any troubles.
I actually dont want to know so much about every peoblem my car has.

I kind of knew that was probably the issue as the same happened on the w124 as well. The car starts when cold but then just stops in the middle of nowhere. Unless one drives with a spare CPS at all times, how would one avoid the tow on a weekend when the shops are even closed. But I suggest that owners just change it every 60K miles or so to prevent this as CPS seems to be such a known issue on the w124 and w210s. Not sure how the other models are when it comes to this.

Honda reliability
 

We hear a lot about Honda reliability because the majority of owners wouldn't know a defect if it leaped up and bit them in the.......

Ooo, I can't say that here.

Here's my Andy Rooney segment:
I've been reading this thread for awhile and I feel the need to insert my $.02. If I get the gist of it, the Benz is expensive to maintain and sometimes tempermental, but those who love them (brand loyalists) would take no other car in its place. Many who want dependable transportation keep a "justincase" vehicle, and the older Benzes, in general, are simpler, more dependable and more suitable for DIY's. Some have said that Benzes are higher quality automobiles that hold value longer and that somehow justifies paying higher maintenance costs than Honda-Acura, Toyota-Lexus, or Jag (2000-later) owners pay. Here's a philosophical question. What is the definition of a high quality car? Isn't this subjective? Is there no automobile costing less than a Benz, that, while generally out performing a Benz on the road, can faithfully and consistently out perform Benzes mechanically? I've heard that Japanese cars, while dependable, have no soul or personality. How do you quantify that? Acceleration? Exhaust note? Interior appointments? Most Benzes have pretty spartan interiors. Shouldn't the ultimate purpose of any car be to go from A to B, and isn't the purpose of a performance to get there ASAP and as safely as possible? Who's to say that a Lex, Acura or late model Jag can't do that as well or better than a Benz can? Isn't this simply a case of stubborn brand loyalty? How do you quantify the mental wellbeing that is derived from knowing that you're probably not about to be handed a catastrophic repair invoice?

BTW, I've had four 126's over the past 15 years. They drive and handle nicely and feel like thay are carved from a solid granite!! The downside -vacuum issues, brake issues and electrical issues. I just got a quote $2K to replace an intake manifold gasket on my 1991 560SEL. This is the second 560SEL that I've had that has needed this.

On the other hand, my 1989 Towncar, while not as stable handling nor as fast nor as prestigious, has 181K miles on its original engine (no smoking), while still idling baby butt smooth, has never had caliper issues nor any electrical issues. Clearly the Benz has kept more of its value, but objectively speaking, which should be considered the better car?

I still love my Benz, but I also love the piece of mind that my old Towncar gives. That's worth more to me than the difference in value.

I love this thread - keep it going!

"Yes, ignorance is bliss"

So you know the inner workings of your computer? Or your vacuum, doorbell, microwave, cell phone, food processor, coffee maker, television, radio, dvd or ANY of the other appliances in your life? Maybe it's not to much to ask for something to work reliably. Nothing more, nothing less.



"We hear a lot about Honda reliability because the majority of owners wouldn't know a defect if it leaped up and bit them in the......."

As compared to the average MB owner who is all to familiar with a lot of defects? I assume 99.9% of ALL Honda owners would know if their car stranded them along the road. Of course that might happen once in 200K miles. Oh! Curse that car which has no soul!

compare stats
 

I know this....

I keep a log on stat sheets...about 40 lines per page....

I bought my daughter a civic with 105,000 miles in it in 2002
and I bought me a 99 ML320 with 80,000 miles on it in 2002.

my ML320 is now on page 2 with notes on my repairs. Too long to type or remember.

the Civic 1/4 of page one has oil, brakes tires written on it.

flixbiz you bring up some good points, I'd like to respond to a few.

Quality. Quality is subjective but you have to feel it. Take a Jag, they are cheap sorry. They look great, drive great but when you get up close and personal they do things in a cheaper manner.

Just because something is made well doesn't mean it woun't need its fair share of work. In the marine world really high end boats actually need a lot more work then cheaper boats. A Sea Ray has no wood outside, a Hinkley does for example. A new Hinkley cost 4 times what a similer size Sea Ray does, and cost twice as much to maintain. But the Hinkley is hands down a better boat.

Same with a Rolex, Rolex's cost a lot of fix. Certianly a $50 Fossil can keep the time just as good if not better. But a Rolex is a better watch hands down.

Quality and reliablilty are two different things, not to be confused. Just because a car doesn't need many parts, that doesn't mean that its made well. Take Ferrari for example, they are super expensive to fix but they are some of the best made cars out there. Also one needs to take into account what a vehical was built for. Most of us buy these cars used for cheap, and we expect them to run like other cheap cars. Well a new S550 costs about $100k, and is not ment to be a cheap car to run. Its built to be the most advanced thing on four wheels MB can create. An S2000 certainly cost less to run then a Ferrari 308, both can be bought for about the same price now. But in its day the 308 was a screamer and a super advanced road car.

After purchasing my E300 I don't see me ever buying another Mercedes sedan built after the W124's, W126's, and W201's. Anyone can poke about GM quality, but my worst GM product shines bright compared to my E300.

what type of issues/problems with the e300 made u type such a statmeent ? :)

"Quality and reliablilty are two different things, not to be confused. Just because a car doesn't need many parts, that doesn't mean that its made well. "

Hatterasguy, quality and reliability need not be mutually exclusive. Shouldn't someone expect reliability in a high quality and high priced product? Why. other than status, would someone wear a Rolex when a Fossil does the same job? The boat analogy is different since you may notice performance differences in favor of the more expensive boat. I loved my Triumph TR6 back in the day, but it was just for fun. I knew its spotty reputation going into the deal. Shouldn't someone who pays $100K for a car demand reliability? After all, what good is a high quality car that spends 20% of its time in a shop? When I'm really honest with myself I realize that I, like many Benz owners, am status conscious. I like the status the mystique and traditional styling of this car and the looks that it gets - looks that my Lincoln does not get. In exchange, I tolerate the fact that it is somewhat sensitive and high maintenance- somewhat like a trophy wife. In Germany, these are taxicabs and police cars, but here in the States, we place these babies on pedestals. I'm not judging - I do the same thing!

women recognize a Rolex:).

Anyway, if I were to spend the $$ necessary to purchase a brand new car today I have to admit it would not have the three pointed star but the H symbol representing the Honda brand. I'm actually kinda sitting here waiting for their diesel:D. Anyway, the reason being is that the Honda beats the MB hands down in regards to the maintenance cost but I will say that some of the same stuff that goes wrong with a 200k+ miles MB is going wrong with our 200k+ Honda CRV. Namely, window regulators and door check straps. These parts are cheaper for the Honda than the MB too.

Don't get me wrong - I will drive a 123 as long as I can do the maintenance myself:). Honda did their homework with the design/engineering of their vehicles.

Because it makes a statement. A Rolex makes a statement about ones success, it says I can afford a $10k watch. A Fossil while rather nice, can be had for $50. On a side not if you just like watch's they are pretty neat, Rolex does build them to a higher standard as one expects.

Most people buy Mercedes to make a statement, look at me my bank account is quite healthy. But that is not exclusive to MB, Lexus, Jag and the ultimate Rolls Royce fall into that category.

Then you have the enthusiasts, those sick people like most of us that just like these cars for various reasons. Be it the way they drive, engineering, everyone’s reasons are different.

But in owning any high end good one must remember, the entry fee is higher, and the cost of staying in that league are also higher. Lets take Toyota, we just got my mom an 07 Rav4. Its the latest and greatest from Toyota all new, you get the idea. Well it is most certainly not much different then my 13 year old Camry. All the controls are similar, the engine puts out a bit more power but is essentially the same ect. In 13 years they introduced no new technology, oh no they added rear disc brakes and traction control, wow advanced stuff. Now since all this stuff on this SUV is tried and true been sorted out ages ago one would expect it to not cause issues. So far this has proven correct.

Now lets compare say a 1993 300E, to a 2007 E350. Anything similar? Well they are 4 door sedans with 6 cylinder engines, that’s about it!:D MB introduced a ton of new and more advanced technology. Stuff that has not been proven, but its new and pretty cool. So of course its going to cause issues, its new the bugs are still getting worked out.

That’s not even getting into the difference in materials, but thats to be expected at twice the price.

And I guess that pretty well sums it up doesn't it?. It's the styling, technology and mystique that attracts many Benz enthusiasts, despite the fact that Benz has been living largely on its mystique, alone, for over a decade. There are some who would not touch a post-126 Benz even though (or perhaps because) the 126 has few bells or whistles when compared to modern Benzes, yet some like to "be the first on the block" to have the latest bells and whistles even though those B's and W's often land the car in the shop. I'll also admit that I get a feeling of pride when I walk into the Benz dealership to pay for the latest repair. You receive a knowing nod from the other club members in the waiting area as they sip their designer coffee while watching the plasma TV. We like to be able to display our accomplishments (impress the women), while showing that we can also handle the high cost of continued membership in this club. The fact that we willingly keep a "justincase" car evens adds to that aura. I must admit, while I complain about a $2K invoice, my 126 has never stranded me and has cost me relatively little over the past 5 years. It's quite dependable as a daily driver if you stay ahead of the preventive maintenance curve. I had a Benz salesman once tell me that I should do whatever I can to keep my 126- this from a guy who makes his living selling new ones! Go figure!

I am curious about whether there are discussion boards for Bentley's or Maserati's in which so many owners have as much ongoing maintenance drama as what I read on this board. I will do some research on the Bentley and Maserati boards and report back.:)

Merry XMAS to all!

Do a search on my name and see what all has happend before 68,000 miles.

http://us.lexusownersclub.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4507

http://www.bmwboard.com/forum/index.php?

I may have overlooked them, but I could not find the

"Is BMW too troublesome?" or the "Is Lexus too troublesome?" threads!

Hey FlixBiz!
 

Could it be that if they don't like their vehicle, they just move on to another brand, instead of whining like a puppy dog?

I do not understand people on this thread, if you no longer like the products that Mercedes Benz builds, why don't you focus your time on finding something you really like instead of complaining about it?

Interesting question Benzbob:

It's one that I've been analyzing as I read this thread. There must be a masochistic streak in the psychological make up of some Benz enthusiasts. An earlier poster on this board told about $9,000 in various repairs over a 6 month period. That would have sent me directly to my nearest Lexus, Acura, Jaguar delership. I speculate that we want so badly to believe that these cars are still what their reputation has always indicated that they were and with each repair, we hope that this is the final fix that will make the car right, because when they are right, there are few marques that can compete with the MB.

Knowing what I know from these and other stories, I would never buy a new Benz. I'll just stick with my 560SEL. It's build is rock solid, it's styling timeless, and at least I know its quirks. Knock on wood, it has yet to leave me stranded! At the same time, however, there are thousands of new Benzes sold every year. I would imagine that at least 90%-95% of these cars are performing flawlessly, otherwise dealerships would be stormed by angry owners on a constant basis. We only hear the horror stories. The satisfied owners are too busy enjoying their cars to log onto boards such as this one.

Very Discouraged with MB
 

I am a long term MB driver 30 years and 5 cars. I always thought I got my money's worth until recently. My 2000 ML 320, bought new 47k, has really let me down in the last three weeks. I was driving straight and level at 40MPH and BAM! the car locked up one or more wheels without my foot on the brake! I dove for the shoulder and made it without being rear-ended. I have been ignoring a BAS/ESP light that rarely shows (5% of driving time) for months hoping to wait out a service visit. After the first incident, my local mechanic found nothing and reset the ESP. BAM again. First dealer service was new brake switch and BAM again. Second visit was a replacement of the YAW Sensor. The sensor and switch cost over $1000. The yaw sensor apparently shorted out and sent the BAS a signal that the car was out of control and power was withdrawn and brakes applied to certain wheels to bring the truck back under control. I'm just thankful that I survived three abrupt panic stops without my foot on the brake caused by the failure of a component in the electronic stability system. This is a really dangerous engineering fault. Imagine interstate driving at speed and sudden almost lock up (the BAS functioned with the pulsation) of some wheels.

They can be costly. For the first two years my SDL was bleeding me for $300-$400 in parts a month. :D That was fun!:eek:

Not that I read the Ferrari forum all the time, but I notice with those cars a few grand here and there is just expected. Also the high entry fee kind of keeps the people who really shouldn't be driving them out. A $5k service on a $100k car isn't a big deal. But you get a second hand MB for $5k-$10k and a $2k repiar is a big chunk of the purchase price.

Wow!......unacceptable.......new cars are getting a little scary. When are the going to realize there is a "tipping point" where cars will become too complicated and dangerous.

I wish Honda would hurry up and bring their diesel to the US.

This is really startling. I was under the impression that none of this new fancy crap (on all cars, not just MB) were DESIGNED and tested under "rule 0", in that no failure can cause loss of the normal operation of the car, even if that "normal operation" was coasting to a stop while having the brakes working, even with loss of power assist. If you look at the electronics in an MB (or any car of the 80's or up to the mid 90's) you can see that this is true, everything electronic has a "limp home" or "degraded performance" mode. IMHO, as soon as the mfr's strated violating rule 0, that's when the troubles began...I can hardly wait to see what things will be like with this new steering by wire crap 10 years from now. Or this automatic parking stuff gone mad or degraded from age and lack of maintenance.

When I was still working in engineering in the 90's, our shop was fairly close to UL headquarters in Northbrook. They were at the time mulling over the testing of software and systems for UL approval, and our UL guy was pretty respected over there. We came to the conclusion that it would be impossible to build something inherently safe unless it was designed from a blank piece of paper to have every failure mode run to a safe mode.

Good Ole 220D
 

I have a '73 220D with four speed stick. I bought the car, a really nice car, with a dead engine for $500. I bought and installed a completely rebuilt 240 engine from Metric Motors for about 5K (2 year un-limited mileage warrantee).

From the time I first cranked that engine over 'til now I have had ZERO trouble with the car. Geez, the thing is SO simple, there really is nothing to go wrong, so long as basic maintenance points are covered.

Well, OK - the central locking system does not work properly, but that should be simple enough to fix when I open up the doors this coming Spring (fix busted vac lines). And I will be replacing either axle boots or the entire axles before long, as the old boots are cracking.

My total expense thus far is about 7K. Now I just drive and change the oil in the thing, and I love it.

For myself, I would never own a car that has a computer in it, or power windows, etc. And I would never trust a shop to do the work for me. I am DIY to the max, and the old MB fits right in with the fleet of old air-cooled VWs, which, BTW, never give me trouble either.

Newer cars suck. You HAVE to rely on the dealer because they are so complex. Not for me.

Buy old, and do the work yourself. Works for me, and has never left me stranded.

Ciao!

I hope I'm not jinxing my ML, but it's been quite reliable after 130K mi.

Not if the right diagnostic tools are available. I can diagnose any problem on a VW or Audi with a $200 software package and a laptop; unfortunately such a package is not available for Mercedes. Touaregs and Phaetons are just as complex as most Mercedes.

Are MB's to much trouble
 

Bravo Steve, I used to hear the same thing about Alfa Romeo Spiders. However, I love the car and found one that had been dealer serviced and not worked on by someone that had no idea what he was doing. That was 8 years ago and it has never hung me up... for that matter, none of them have and I we have a 66 Mustang Coupe, 78 Alfa Spider Veloce, 91 300CE, and, yes, two old Toyotas. Most of the problems with cars are a lack of maintenence. Yes you can buy a car today that boasts no maintenance for 100K but you do not want to be the owner of that vehicle once its owner realizes it is time to throw it away and start all over again. What ever happened to auto makers not making throw away cars? The problem is us, a people who are too much in a hurry to look under the hood from time to time and demand NEW every year rather than staying with something that is proven and works. I fear that Mercedes has jumped on that bandwagon to some extent...that is why I bought the 91 300CE...it is still a real Benz and a classic at that. I would not give it up for a new Camry or Honda. Someone who buys the pointed star, or an Alfa or Porche is buying a piece of history. Can you imagine any Honda or Toyota becoming a classic? My two cents.

I guess that depends on your definition of a classic.
I would say that the Hondas and Toyotas are defining reliability of automobiles today. Many people now compare them to the cars that they talk about. I bet if the new MB models that are available today had the same reliability and of the current Hondas and Toyotas, most people including myself would buy one and get ride of the current MB's that we have.

I can't resist. Words have meanings.

"I bet if the new MB models that are available today had the same reliability and of the current Hondas and Toyotas, most people including myself would buy one and get ride of the current MB's that we have."

Do you really believe that reliability is the only criteria by which we choose the cars we drive? What about style, status, safety, performance, comfort, among many other factors. How can you possibly make the statement that most people including yourself would buy one?
Most new MB's are from $40,000 to $100,000+. The luxury car market will never be for most people.

Steve

of course!! reliability should be No.1 how on earth could you show off the other factors if your bright and shiny MB would not even start? or stalls?:rolleyes:

I guess that why there is now brand called Lexus that has only been around since 1989.....luxury and reliability.....there are obviously a few buyers who care about both



Warren
Columbus Ohio

I for one wouldn't want to drive what everyone else has. For me performance, style, comfort, longevity, and reliability are most important, in roughly that order. Status I could care less about.

Most people I believe buy primarily on price.