Is merecedes too troublesome ?
 

Guys,
after doing DIY troubleshooting on my benzes pretty much every weekend and reading posts and posts of trouble, I was just thinking today, my corolla has more miles on it that the 124 at the moment and never did it leave me stranded on the road, require a jump, snap a fuse or had me go to the dealer besides the 60K mile service. same can be said about a honda that my friend owned that had more than 300K before he sold it for good price. And it made me wonder. when we opted to buy a mercedes, did we buy quality/reliability or a three point star with contiunous problems and DIYs under the hood ? :confused:

My Mercedes never give me any trouble, been driving them for 30 years. Never got left on the side of the road.

If I had to drive a Honda every day, I'm not sure I wouldn't rather be on the side of the road.

Re: Is merecedes too troublesome ?
 

Was your MB purchased new by you or did you buy it used? You may have inherited someone else's neglect.

I seem to recall a thread here where Steve Brotherton said the worst thing that ever happened to a car was it's owner.

Just the other day Larry Bible commented about a Honda his daughter drives. Total POS from what I can gather. I too have one of those Hondas you mentioned with alot of miles, but I was the original owner and not someone who never grasped the concept of regular maint.

I'm not sure. I have a 190 16v. We bought it when it was 2 years old. It had 40k on I think. It's a euro model. It did not seem abused and for 10 years it was fine but my folks rarely drove it. I bought it from them 3 years ago and have put nearly $10k into it and I am still not done. It seems to go in for major work 2 times a year. Sitting back and thinking about it, I do not think I am mad at the fact that it goes in 2 times a year. I cannot say I know how it was treated the 1st 2 years. My folks did basic maintenance but they only put 30k or 40k on the odo in 10 years.
I think what irks me the most is that nothing, and I mean nothing is easy on my car. I have to have the valves adjusted on my car tomorrow. It is not a matter of pulling the valve cover and taking a wrench and feeler gauge like it was on my 77 240D. No, they need to pull the cams (double OHC) and remove the buckets, measure the shims and add or subtract shims. That’s 5 or 6 hours of labor at $75 a hour. My steering box when out, My steering box is unique to my car. $1800 for a new one. Thank god they could rebuild it for $700. I know I bought a performance car. But why can’t the engineer talk to the mechanic when he designs my car? Why does everything have to be such a PIA to fix on it?

I have been told that on 190’s there is a gear that runs the distributor. Apparently it is notorious for failure. The part is cheap (by MB standards) at under $200. Thing is I am told you have to nearly rip the engine down to the block to replace it. Why? That is not what I expect from MB. Things break down, SH&T happens. I understand that. But I am disappointed with the design of my car.

holy shlt!!!
 

do you think the guy that buys an f40,a modena or that new bugatti says 'hey why do i need to do so much maintainence on this car,when i haven't changed the plugs in my yugo for two years!'if i gave you the choice between a brand new accord or a 5yr old porsche i know what 90% of us would take;) sure it's frustrating when things go wrong with our babies(how many accord drivers refer to their cars like that?) but when they're running strong you wouldn't want anyhting else(well,i wouldn't!).i grew up with the"engineered like no other" banter and wish i never had to worry but that's life.
to paraphrase Heston you can take the keys to my M.B. 'from my cold dead hands!'
for my wife's crv-just write me the cheque!!

MB's are three point star with contiunous problems and DIYs under the hood. My car was in "Like New" condition and I have spent more time at the dealerships and DIY in the last five months than I have in the last ten.

"engineered like no other" is similar to Ford's "Quality is Job 1". Mercedes engineering has not impressed me.

Then again, my 87 300D hasn't have that much wrong with it (AC gone now, links in the rear suspension, starter locked up at 180,000 miles). The 280 SE is 31 years old and runs line a top. Blew a transmission cooler line and it needed tons of work when I got it, but it sure beats the you-know-what out of the Nissan I drive for work with similar milage.

Mercedes are NOT low maintenance cars -- they require considerably more work than a Toyota or Honda, but will generally outlast them, and the parts are usually cheaper.

As far as engineering goes, the difference isn't what it once was -- after all, MB used a fully independent suspension starting in 1953, disk brakes on all four wheels starting in 1959, etc. Drive a 1950s American car, you will see why that slogan appeared. Again, everyone else caught up.

I'm still in love.....

Peter

I have been pleased with all the Mercedes that I have owned. I have also owned 4 Lexus as well, and although they where nice cars, they will never compare to a Mercedes-Benz. As long as I am able to, I will drive a Mercedes. I have seen more older Toyotas smoke and more older Hondas towed to know that they aren't that bullet proof.

Mercedes-Benz cars are of extreme high quality (at least the W140/W126 and W124/W123 were, can't say much about the W220, W201 and W210), BUT they require high preventive maintenance.

And still, there are some Achiles hills that in my opinion plage all Mercedes-Benz, regardless of year and/or model:

1/ Tricky and temperamental (to say the least) electrical issues (including but not exclusive to power windows/seats, radios and worst of all: FUSES and RELAYS!)

2/ Water pumps and radiators (could it be because most M.B.s tend to run REALLY hot at all times?).

3/ Over complicated and over engineered extras: like the self levelling rear axle/suspensions.

4/ All vacuum assisted systems (locks, self closing doors, etc)

5/ And if you live in country where the roads are horrible: alignment and balancing issues.

My opinion is derived after more than 20 years of M.B.s ownership. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me.

Is Mercedes too troublesome!
 

My personal experience is that they were good and reliable until 1990.

I have been driving a 1995 S500, ( Bought it used, STARMARK at 22K miles and bought 2 extra years of MB Warranty )
at present I have 55K miles.

Its troublesome for two reasons:

1. I think the quality has gone down.
Second, Is the problem with MB Authorised dealer.

In my first year of Starmark warranty, dealer was very cooperative. However in the second and third year of STARMARK warranty, dealer had no interest in fixing warranty jobs. My car had to be sent back second and third time to fix the SAME warranty job correctly. So the quality of service has also become POOR.

Car was never returned on the same day as promised, but usually after 2/3 days.

Dealer's service department NEVER returned your phone call when the car is in the shop. Heard his complaint from other users also.
While waiting at the dealer to pick up my car, which was never ready at promised time, I had the pleasure to watch other customers express their frustration and anger for the quality of service and repair jobs.

I hope MBUSA are reading this post. They have to fix the problem of Quality of the car and quality level of their dealers.

I am hearing great reviews about quality and SERVICE from my friends who drive LEXUS.

Some interesting words..

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/pb/vintage.htm

Some issues indeed...
 

As you can see from my signature, I have two new ones on order, so I can't be too unhappy. But...

The E280 has been trouble-free. It goes through two headlight bulbs a year (non-Xenon), and about one instrument panel bulb a year. The battery was replaced under warranty when the car was a year old and left me by the side of the road.

The SL had no faults when I bought it four years ago from the dealer. Since then, it has had a variety of small niggles, some of which are not yet fixed. It will be in for its 60k km/36k mile service on the 10th and 11th of September.

The faults:-
- Leaking hard top. Didn't leak last winter after I followed a tip here about applying vaseline along the seals before putting it on. Have changed employer, and will have outdoor parking this winter, so we will see.
- Driver-side headreast gear slips, so headrest does not go up and down.
- Driver-side orthopedic seat air currently not working. Can hear air leaking at valve.
- Two radio antenna masts so far, as they just seem to lock up.
- Tempremental remote locking. (Once a month, the lock lights stay on after operating, of course not while the dealer is checking it, and the passenger side receiver no longer seems to work.)
- Leaking radiator expansion chamber. Leaks where the metal part that supports the cap meets the plastic part.
- Bulb behind external temperature LCD has blown.
- Driver-side heated seat blows fuses regularly when I switch it straight to high position. Fine if I start off on low heat.

The car is still a pleasure to drive. Everything mechanical is wonderful! It's "character" (meaning the things above) irritates my wife. She spotted a 12-month old new SL at the local MB dealer, which is what ultimately led me to order the CLK500 convertible, as I need more than two seats. 9-month lead time. Delivery April. The new E should arrive in January.

Before these cars, I had three BMWs. An early 323i was full of problems. (Injection system, gearbox) A 320i was totally problem free over 200k km, and my 525i had two hydraulic fluid leaks. Had an early Accord at the same time, which rusted to death while I was living in Holland.

Momo

I rekon computers are what ruined the later mercs.

I have been really disappointed with my MB experience. I was told they 'last forever' but that ain't true. It has stayed broken down a LOT more than it has run. I've owned it for 5 years and it's only run long enough to put 35,000 miles on it. If I didn't have my Accord to depend on , I would have to buy another car. The timing belt on the Accord stripped out at 158,000 miles and cost me $25 to replace. Try that on a Mercedes.

And just where would you put a timing belt on a MB.

For twenty five years I have kept care of hundreds of Mercedes for which the owners felt they were efficient cars.

Me thinks, cars with repeat mechanical problems aren't seeing the right technician.

Our 190E has had two expensive problems for which I had to seek help elsewhere - trans failed and head gasket oiled up the cooling system. Our Honda has had no such problems - i.e. nothing I can't handle inexpensively myself or live with.

Still, in most conditions, the Merc is MUCH nicer to drive than the Honda. I cured a vibration/noise problem with about $125 of motor and tranny mounts. For the Honda, a similar problem would take $400 worth of parts - I live with it. Although the Honda tranny hasn't failed, it shifts with a mighty jerk that WILL need repair eventually. Other parts HAVE needed replacement on the Honda too, such as a front axle and speed sensor.

Time will tell which is cheaper to keep running down the road, but if my old Integra was any measure, my money is on the Honda. Still, every car I have worked on over the years has been on a learning curve - that is just the nature of DIY. If inefficiency at the job is balanced against knowledge and confidence gained, it is well worth the trials and time spent. The more I understand the car, the better I'll be able to handle situations that will occur on the road, regardless which one I'm driving at the time.

Steve

Well, I don't want to seem nasty, but how on earth did a timing belt on your Honda shear off it's teeth at 158,000 miles? Was it the original belt? On our old Mazda I change the belt every 60K-miles or so, and avoid that problem. Since most Honda engines are interference engines, you're very lucky you didn't damage the engine.

If you care for cars in such a manner, no car will hold up very well.

The scorecard so far on my 89 300E:
Radiator
Foglight lens (2)
fan bracket, idler pulley, fan pulley, tensioner shock
A/C compressor, high pressure coolant hose and dryer
OVP, fuel pump relay, coolant temp sensor, O2 sensor
CIS-E control unit (ouch!!)
Fuel pumps (ouch twice)
Climate control actuators( Woohoo!!)
rear brake discs (not bad)
Transmission
complete head job including all new valve guides, timing chains and guides
New front and rear crankshaft seals
front flex disc
radio
fuel pressure regulator ( why does that thing cost that much?)
Antenna mast
Flywheel sensor
And water pump (come on..$230 for a damn waterpump??)

Still needs; Fuel distributor, all new injectors, engine wiring harness, belt tensioner, neutral safety switch and rear window regulator

The only 'repeat' I have seen is that something is continuosly failing.

About the story of the timing belt, I wasn't insinuating that you would put one on a Mercedes. It was a reference to doing
any repair on a Mercedes for $25. Heck Steve, I'll bet you charge more than that just to look at one!!:D :D

BTW, methinks me thinks is one word.
;)

John you can't help but seem nasty, after all you are Canadian!!:p :D
I don't know if it was the original or not. I forgot to stop for gas and ran out driving to work one morning. I was in sight of a gas station when it stuttered and tried to restart the car by letting out on the clutch while in gear at around 40 mph. The result was that the belt teeth on the crank pulley stripped in place.
As far as keeping my cars up I have a good reputation. Several people who know me usually want my cars at new car time because they know that I keep them up.

so i guess the concensus is that mercedes might have it's reputation lingering on from the 70's and 80's but when it comes to the reliability factor that's opinionated.
between my 87 260E and my 87 toyota corolla, my 260 has 118K miles and i bought it when it had 90K. I've spent about 9000 on it in two years since i'ive owned it.
versus my corolla that i bought ten years ago when it had 125K miles and i got sick of it when it reached 289K and i just dont drive it anymore. total spent on the corolla in 10 years, $500. that was for the brakes and muffler.
the benz i had to get towed 5 times in two years, the corolla.. not once. i could never rely on any mercedes, either current or the ones i owned in the past to be me primary/only vehicle. i always need a second one "incase" it dies. versus the corolla which never left me stranded. same goes for my friend who owns a 400E now after selling his honda with 300K plus miles. he's owned the 30K mile 92 400E for less than a year and has already spend more on the car than he did on the honda for the life of that car... well i guess mercedes is not all that we think it is after all. perhaps it's a good "hobby" car for one who likes to work on the car every single weekend :) but then again we're owners so we can complain. can't we ?

Well said! I hope to actually drive mine one day!!;)

Comparing to a 1987 Corrolla is kind of a stretch... that's a very basic bare-bones car. And I'm not sure I'd really want to be driving (pleasure) or transporting my family (safety) in that car at 0K miles, let alone 289K miles. :)

I bought my 300E at 87K miles expecting it would cost more in maintenance and be more hassle than a Toyota, and I was right! But, it's a lot more car than a Toyota, too.

When I went looking for a 4-dr sedan, a new Toyota Camry was one choice I looked at. It was a nice, boring, car... but seemed very expensive if you got one with any amenities.

So I started looking at higher-end used cards, and liked what I saw with the Benz's. My goal in getting a nice used 300E was overall cheaper cost-of-ownership (cradle to grave) than a new Toyota Camry.

So far, that's been the case, and... I'm not driving a Camry. Priceless. :)

"My goal in getting a nice used 300E was overall cheaper cost-of-ownership (cradle to grave) than a new Toyota Camry."

YOUR cost may be low, but 'cradle-to-grave' does not apply to your Benz, since you didn't buy new. Had you, it would have been much more expensive, considering double the price new. Likewise - even with the depreciation difference - a viable comparison would have been buying a USED Camry vs. the Benz.

My guess is you felt you would be happier with a used Benz than any Toyota, regardless of cost, and that makes any other comparison just a rationalization. Buying used introduces so many variables, you just can't predict what expenses you will face. Still, statistics would be on your side it you chose the Toyota.

You want a cheap-to-own car that is fun to drive? I bought my '88 Integra new for $11k. Twincam 24V, 6500 rpm at peak power, 4-whl disks, programmed port injection, decent ride, and could handle circles around our 190E - and just as roomy inside with a better driving position. Full manual everything, but that much more reliable. I had 1 breakdown in 186k miles, and even towing on that was covered by recall warranty. No non-maintenance repairs except rodding the radiator. I would still be tooling around in it except for some 16yr old dingleberry in his dad's SUV and cellphone plastered on his ear and the attention span.... well, of a dingleberry. I guess my trunk was as good a brake as anything he could find.

I really enjoy our 190E when I get to drive it. It rides great, is quiet, has a pleasant 'throat' to the exhaust, and handles decently. But someday I may tire of the tinkering, and how well will the charm wear?

Steve

My father bought his first MB the same year I was born 1959 -- he always bought new MB's and drove them until the late 80's -- when he felt they had become too $$

I can tell you they have never been easy or cheap to fix. I can not even count how many water pumps we have replaced over the years.

I still have a 250S that my dad bought for my mother in 1966 for their 25th and his wonderful 71 6.3 -- they are still around because most of the parts have been replaced -- just kidding!

My 88sl has had its share of problems - all the stupid AC parts -- Water pumps -- I could go on -- It still is a GREAT car. The thing is that with MB, people often spend the money to fix parts that they would just live with in other cars . I just replaced trim parts on the SL to the tune of + $800.00 this year, I would never have replaced them on another car -- I wanted it to be as it was and now is again -- that is what is great about the cars.

I want to love the new ones but I can say without question my 95 and 2000 Jag XJ's are better cars than the new MB's as far as cost of ownership - the 2000 is so fast :) and the 95 has been the most trouble free car I have ever owned.

I am out looking for a new car and I do not think it will be a MB this time. I do feel sorry for some when I read the forum - many do not know what they are getting into, especially a multi owner car when often someone in the chain of ownership was not able to fix the car because of the $$.

Guess I'll jump in.

I have never before had a 17-year-old car with 200k plus that I was still content to own. It's still a nice ride. This is my 80-miles-per-day commuter car, and the net operating costs have been very low.

Actually, I have never had a Japanese car that was not very rusty well before 200k, where the 124 is holding its ground on that front. I've been through many cars, and watched Hondas, Mazdas, Nissans, and Toyotas decompose long before their mechanicals were worn out.

Frankly, rust is usually what sends many otherwise good cars to the boneyard in New England. Hopefully, cars from the 90s will perform better on this front, though I already see problems among some Japanese 10-year-olds.

The old 124 is also holding up better mechanically than a variety of BMWs that I have been through. Way better than Audis. I once sent a 5000s to 'heaven' with just 90k on it. Nightmare.

I'd have to be honest, though, and say that if I did not perform my own repairs, and realize the dramatic parts savings from doing this, the 124 probably would not have been economically viable when I 'inherited' it at around 180k. I would have been 'underwater' on it pretty quickly, since the residual value is quite low. This is not to say that it was going to be any worse to get in shape than any other car of that age. Heck, for most cars, no one would have bothered to revive it. My interest was in having a car I liked to drive that would earn its keep in 'utility value'.

As mentioned, I have not heard very good things about the newer models.
Keep in mind that the new MBs are generally much cheaper in real dollars than the older cars. The window sticker for my 1986 300E says $40k.
That would be over $67,000 in 2003 dollars!

FWIW, I would honestly consider upgrading to a newer 124 when this one finally wears out, perhaps a 400E. Overall, these are very good cars. Though I would miss the manual tranny...

Well, sbourg, thanks for the free BS psychoanalysis. :)

My comparison was simply what you can get for similar cost of ownership. It seems to me that's a better basis for comparison, as most of us have a specific budget to spend on a car.

Manny's motto:

If you can not afford to drive, maintain, repair, love & cherish your Mercedes........buy an " appliance ", i.e. Toyota, Honda, Saturn, Huyndai, Kia, whatever.
As far as economics, you will be miles ahead.
You can buy & wear out three of them, for the price of one Mercedes, but will you get the pleasure/satisfaction out of them ?
;)

Ode to Benz
 

We ain't here to defend Mercedes Benz-
Only to share, enjoy and mend.
No doubt there are other cars that are cheaper and do not chug-
But when you drive them - do you feel smug?
I for one have no allegiance to the three pointed star -
Just appreciate a damn fine car.

Here's my story, sad but true..
 

I guess I'll put my 2 cents worth in:

In June of this year I bought a 1993 500 SEL from a family friend. I had a 98 Lexus ES300 at the time, which I bought new. I sold my Lexus and bought the Merc for a difference of $3,000.00. I did this for 3 reasons:

1. I needed more room.
2. I thought the 500 SEL would be safe and reliable transportation for several more years.
3. Frankly, I wanted the "ego upgrade" of the big Benz.

So, for $3K I figured it was worth it.

In the last 90 days I have spent $6,000.00 on various repairs for the Benz. That puts me at $9,000.00 out-of-pocket in 3 months, and I'm now looking at another $500.00 for PS gearbox work.
The $9K investment is almost exactly 10 times what the Lexus costs me over the 5 1/2 years I owned it. Maybe I bought a bad Benz. Or, maybe I have a bad inde shop. I don't really know. I do know that I'm quickly becoming a much better mechanic than I ever really wanted to be.

You know what's the most troubling thing about the whole deal? 3 weeks ago I felt it necessary to buy my wife a brand new Toyota 4Runner because I absolutely HAD to have 1 car in the family I KNEW would run whenever called upon. It's a shame to have such a big comfortable Benz, but not have the confidence to drive it anywhere but to work and back for fear it will strand me. I never, ever had that fear with my Lexus.

So for me, the bottom line is, since I'm not ultra-rich, I really need a car that I can DEPEND on more than I need an ego stroke. It appears the price of that lesson is $9,000.00 and climbing.

Just my story. Please don't kick me out of the club

i am astonished. all these stories are so different from my experiences.

i have a 560sel that i purchased new in 1986. it recently turned 250,000 miles. it has never had a water pump failure. at 200,000 miles, pulled heads and replaced guides, valves, camshaft and timing chain. at 220,000 miles rebuilt tranny. never had any ac problems until 235,000 miles. had a leak that we could not find. rebuilt system to use 134a. no problems since.

interior, blue leather, still looks brand new. but it does get polished and fed at least once every 5 years.

it is on its third set of spark plugs. its second set of spark plug cables and boots. its second distributor cap.

original radiator was replaced at about 210,000 miles.

only towing experience with the car was on thanksgiving day several years ago. i was scorching the hardy toll road at about 120 when the engine quit. the original fuel pump finally fried.

suspension components were replaced at about 180,000 miles. none since.

vickers pump has been rebuilt twice.

sunroof has never leaked. all rubber window seals remain in great shape. instrument lighting has never been replaced.

brake pads and rotors are my only complaint. i go through them too fast. my mechanic says that it is my driving style.

oh, and i did lose the master cylinder one day. i was only at 30mph. and the car had 150,000miles.

my conclusion after 250,000 miles and almost 17 years: WHAT A GREAT CAR. it is still my favorite for high speed back road driving in all conditions. has never let me down.

i suppose one of the secrets to this level of reliability is having a perfectionist of a mechanic and to allow him to take care of the car on some kind of a routine basis.

the car used to get that kind of loving care at intercontinental motors when bill pennel and charlie thomas owned it. but after the schnitzer[sic]/autonation shuffles, i moved it to an indy. had i not made that move, i am certain that i would be less than thrilled with owning such an old beast - the dealer would have made my life running an old benz painful so as to convince me to buy a new one.

i would like to conclude by stating that i could tell the same story about most of my other benzes. from the first one that i ever owned a 1973 220 that i drove for 3 years and 140,000 miles and replaced with a 1976 450sel that i drove for 220,000 miles and replaced with one of the first us 300e's in 1985.

now, that was the benz that drove me crazy. i loved driving it. except for the damn squeaky seats. and that serpentine belt almost killed me when in a houston downpour one morning the belt got so wet as to slip enough that the a/c clutch disengaged: instant fogging of all windows. how fast can you handle that situation safely? and it needed another 2 inches of wheelbase, not really a 4 passenger car unless the rear seat passengers were two children.

so, after a year, it was replaced by the 560sel.


what more can i say, except that i have other benzes and i don't think that they have been unnaturally maintenance intensive.

in fact, measured over 100,000 miles, my 1996 gmc yukon has been the most maintenance intensive vehicle that i have ever owned.

4wd system out in 30,000 miles

2 master cylinders

fuel injection system

many brake pads.

3rd set of tires

in signing off, here is my current benz fleet...

1986 560sel - 250,000 miles
1987 560sec - 83,000 miles
1979 6.9 - 50,000 miles
1995 e320cab - 11,000 miles
1997 s500c - 22,000 miles

i also want to add, these cars are always driven at 8/10 or more. because of that, i do insist that the cars are maintained impeccably. i do not want to be running at high speeds and have the car fail in critical areas. i consider these cars sports cars disguised as sedans and i think of every running of them as an autocross event.

the crashworthiness of these m-b vehicles must be mentioned. i had one of the first honda crx. what a lot of fun. i drove it hard and fast. but it always scared me in that if it ever got hit, it was probably bye-bye. i think the same demise would have been the consequence if hit in my vw scirocco.

same reason that i quit driving lotus as an everyday. 18 wheelers never saw me.

enough said, i think.

I have always had this silly notion that a vehicle should perform the simple function of starting and carrying me to and from where I want to go without breaking my beer budject. My Mercedes has failed miserably on that front. If I wanted a car to just sit around and and look at and tinker with, there are a lot of 60's American muscle cars that would be a better investment. All my friends make fun of my broken down Mercedes. And they rib me for buying European, especially German. At this point I'm just having to take it.

How many of your friends drive a 14 year old car ?

- most of them:) actually and I suspect the same of the Cap'n because of where he lives.

Other than vacuum leaks (on the 300D - my daily driver) I don't have any troublesome issues on either of my Mercs:).

300SDL bought with 225K miles:

The radiator had a plastic neckpiece that broke off and spilled coolant everywhere on the highway, one day. Fortuanately, I was smart enough to notice the coolant light flash on and off. Then I watched as the temperature of the engine started to rise quickly. I pulled over immediately and didn't let it go past 105 - 110 degrees (ALUMINUM HEAD HERE!). Got to be careful, and keep a watchful eye.

My '97 E420 (bought with 89K miles) needed a XENON HEADLIGHT ASSEMBLY $2,000 +!

My ABS and ESP lights came on in the car, called 1-800 FOR MERCEDES, and they told me to:
1. Turn the car off
2. Start it
3. turn the wheel all the way to left
4. turn the wheel all the way to right
5. center the wheel
6. shut off engine
7. restart and PRESTO everything's OK

My 350SD (bought at 236K miles) needed an AC compressor, and driveshaft mounts. Has been using oil quite a bit lately. Uh oh! But wait. I have the second-stage engine! Must be valve seals, right?

My 560SL needed an electronic idle control box. That's it. Bought it with 121K miles, and it had the timing chain replaced at those miles.

The 300SE (bought with 132K miles)seems to run a little lean when starting it up cold. Doesn't take the gas too well. Other than that it's fine.

But I don't care. These cars (to me)are worth it. I would never buy a '00 + Benz model. The 420 is as complex as I can stand.

Ditto. There's elegance in simplicity.

Actually most of my close friends own cars that are way older than 14 years. They drive new Chevrolet and Ford and Dodge and Toyota and so on. But they're pride and joys are are cars that appreciate in value, not decrease. I have one friend that owns four 66 and 67 Fairlane GT's and a 67 Mercury Comet GT convertible. All completely restored. Those five cars collectively are worth around 100 grand. He could go out and buy one Mercedes for that money. But next year his Fords will be worth MORE money and that 100 grand MB will be worth LESS. My own 65 Ford Falcon is insured for a heck of a lot more money than this 'newer' MB. And, I might add, a lot more dependable.;)

Okay, you want to know the scoop? Don't compare your 12, 15, or 20 year old MB to a new Camry. Well, why not? Hhhmmm...

A new Camry with a six and leather and the goodies here in my country is a $40,000 car. In ten years of owning the car, you'll spend some on repairs and maintenance. But, let's say it's NOTHING! Nada, zilch, zip. However, in ten years, the car is worth $8000. That's $32,000 in expense for those ten years.

Now, I buy a five year old C280 for $20,000. I drive it for ten years. Right now a fifteen year old MB sells for about $8000. I've spent a grand total of $12,000 on depreciation.

Okay, see where this is going? So you think that in ten years I'll spend more than $20,000 (above the Camry's cost) keeping the Benz up? Not a chance. There is no way the Camry will cost $20K less in repairs than the Benz.

I was STUPID to buy a new Mercedes. I have to keep the car until it drops to get my money out of it. I should have bought a 3-5 year old car.

Anyone thinking of a new Subaru is nuts. We bought our low mileage 1999 Outback Ltd. for $14,000. The car was $35,000 new! It's under warranty still and is like new. Probably get 15 more years out of this car. Do you think we'll spend that whole $21,000 on repairs because we bought a used car? No way.

So while you older MB driving folks might be writing cheques for repairs while your neighbour cruises in his 2003 Camry, he's got a monthly depreciation charge that is a killer.

My '63 Galaxie was reliable, but it seemed to become a money pit at around 90k miles. I think the previous (and orig) owner put off a lot of maintenance.

But my '69 Fleetwood and now deceased '70 Tornado GT are/were bullet proof. Much easier to maintain and sturdier than the 126. No smoke, no drips, no oil use, no lifter racket, no 120k mile valve work, and on and on... :) TH400s can last 250k miles without a problem! Well, then again -- it's comparing apples to oranges.

But, every weekend he's out water skiing, mountain climbing or some other activity that equates to 'living' rather than working on a car that's so complicated you need a 13,000 member internet chat room to keep it running.:p And that's the question of this thread. Are they worth the trouble. Answer; some are and some ain't! They are cars just like a Ford Fiesta is a car. Different level but still the same!

But, every weekend he's out water skiing, mountain climbing or some other activity that equates to 'living'...

Uh... I don't want to stereotype, but "Camry Owner" and "Living Large" do not go together in my experience. :)

I have nothing against Toyotas... I've owned several in the past. And may again when I next buy a pickup. They are dependable, low-maintenance, and... BORING. That's their attraction.

I'm curious why you keep your Benz?

I gotta say I enjoyed reading this thread quite a bit, and I feel I should add a bit to it as well.

Since my family started owning cars, we had an 89 Nissan Sentra, a 87 Pontiac 6000le, a 94 plymouth acclaim, and my 85 190E

The Nissan was a great car, my sister drove it for a very long time and she didn't put a cent into the car, we tried to sell it at the end, but it would not pass safety because of the rust. It needed one timing chain change, and had some 200K miles on it if I remember correctly.

The Pontiac loved eating water pumps, but it had flawless A/C, it had its share of problems, but all were fixed with very little money, until finally the engine gave way in a terrible way, just as my parents were getting off the highway.

The Acclaim was a business car before we bought it. It was horribly abused, and I happened to be its first driver. That car cost me at least $300 every month for about a years time. It lost a wheel on the road, it leaked and still leaks everything. It went thorugh two starters in a week. Any repair done to it makes it more and more noisy, it sounds like a train now and none of the noise is due to the exhaust system.

I gave up on it when the tranny went cause $2000 is a lot of money for a student.

Around half way through paying off the tranny on the acclaim I got my mercedes. Now this is totally different. When I saw its owner history, the car had more owners then years, to be exact, I'm the 19th owner of an 18 year old benz. Not to mention that quite a few of the PO were car rental places. Clearly the car had a problem before it got to me and was majorly abused.

As so it happened, I got the car right after an engine swap, and with the sever case of hesitation.

Today, the car has been with me for 16 months, I had done 32000km on it. I have done numerous jobs on it, to list a few, timing chain including sprockets guides and anything else that wears out in the front, driveshaft, differential, half shafts, tires, all sorts of electrical problems, the a/c does not work still, and many many more.

BUT, I really didn't have to do any of those things, the one thing I would have had to do is replace the fuel pump relay when it started overheating and shutting down the fuel pump causing my car to stall for a minute or two. The other thing was adjusting the fuel mixture to get rid of the hesitation, but that didn't cost anything.

Now I do admit that if I were to take my benz to a shop, or dealer, I would spend a fortune on it, but I realized something, everytime I took the car to a shop, it came back in worse condition then it was the day before. It took me two visits to a shop to realize this and since that time I only had it on a lift to change the tires. I simply don't let anyone touch the car anymore.

It never left me stranded on the road, and my parents are now asking me if they can take it to Chicago to visit our family because they are afraid to take the acclaim. Mind you, from Toronto to Chicago, it's quite a drive.

I should also mention that I never trusted the car, not after the acclaim. I am still waiting for the day when I have to call a tow truck to get the car home, and I have everything ready for that day, but more so then that, I try to do anything and everything I can to make sure that day never comes.

Oh by the way, I didn't even spend a whole $3000 on all the repairs I have done. So for all you benz owners who spent huge amounts of money on these cars, do yourself a favour, find someone who will love the car, and let them fix it, I knew nothing about fixing cars when I bought mine, and today, I'm getting offers at gas stations for it, am I gonna sell it? nope :) not if things keep up this way.

If you ask me, it's not the car that should be questioned here for its reliablity, but the owner.

xp

Two comments........
 

1. If your after reliability, and driving pleasure means nothing to you then buy a Camry. :rolleyes:

2. Mercedes, the price we pay for personality.;)

Personally my cost of ownership for my two is virtually zip, even with the costs of repairs.

My latest for example, those who've been on the board for a while know the story, but for those who don't the short version:

Got it at the junkyard, no history other than it threw the driveshaft. Trailered home, spent 4 months and $4k to get it roadworthy (includes price of admission). Have put 20K miles on it in 1 year and 4 months. Since getting it on the road I have had to replace the alternator and rebuild the front suspension as necessary repairs. I have no qualms about drving it across country right now. Anything else I have done has basically been a "feel good" repair. So far this year it has cost me about $0.20 to operate, includes gas (lots of it), oil, and insurance plus any repairs.

That's not bad, cause I figure if I take it on a work related trip, the pay me mileage to the tune of $0.36 per mile, so I net $0.16 per. Beer money.

Anything I need to fix or tinker with becomes therapy and a form of relaxation.

Trade a new experince with a new Lexus for the repair experience of a questionably used 10year old MB. Talk about apples and Oranges.

Why don't we talk about my early MLs (bought new in 1998) experience versus the POS 93 ES300 I got in my shop today. Same difference. I will own that ML for another ten years (God willing) and It will never look like most of the cars I work on. In ten years every system will still work as it does today! It will then be 15 years old and it will amaze people.

Wanna buy it? Make me an offer................I didn't think so. It's hard to sell something that doesn't run.

Cap'n, as I recall you've been on this soapbox for as long as I've been here.

Please... sell your Benz for a few hundred bucks, use it as a downpayment on a new Toyota.

Go water skiing and mountain climbing. Enjoy life! Don't die a bitter old man with a busted Benz. :)

Re: Two comments........
 

Ahhh.... refreshing to find someone with enough self-honesty not to need my 'BS psychoanalysis'!;)

Steve

Benz 300 posed the question "Is Mercedes too troublesome?". In my case that is true. When you have to replace the evaporator or transmission or fuel distributor on yours, you may sing a different tune too. Then again, you may never have to replace anything. I was relaying my experiences and nothing more.

Yeah, Cap'n I think your 300E needs to have an *accident* and then collect the insurance and start clean before this car utterly demoralizes you...* just kidding* ;)

My 300E, as I've stated many times before, has been incredible. It's close to 300,000 Kms and it's 14 years old. Still looks like new and no rust. Original tranny and engine - still the original valves, seals, etc. Pretty remarkable. Especially given that those 14 years have seen 14 winters in Ontario, Canada where salt is everywhere on the roads in winter. It truly blows me away. I have not seen many other car makes, if any, last this long under these conditions. You just don't see too many older cars in Ontario that are winter driven - the rust kills 'em young. Many of my friends' cars that are only a few years old are already showing some rust in corners and wheel wells - pretty discouraging.

Sure my car requires regular preventative maintenance, but it returns it in spades with dependable performance. I love seeing people's faces when I tell them my car is a 1989 model with 300,000 Kms on it. :)

So is my Mercedes problematic? Not at all.

It has definately demoralized me. I will NEVER buy another Mercedes.

Unless.... it's a newer one still under warranty...or an SL or a C55 AMG or a W123 with records or.........