Car story just today brings this into some perspective for me:

A co-workers mother of mine inherited her father's Dodge Stratus. Grandpa driven and babied, 90k miles and the motor had a bad bottom end. Tech told her that it wasn't worth replacing the motor, even though the rest of the car was in good shape.

Can't say that about a Merc. Swap out the part and you're ready to roll.

Hello,
Any forum member not satisfied with his/her Mercedes Benz, I will gladly take it off your hands. Please ship it to me FOB Port Klang, Malaysia. Thank you.

Peter

The exact same happened to me.
Luckily the watch got stolen & I replaced it with a $ 49.95 Casio about 6 years ago.
No problem so far.
But............I can't get no satisfaction out of it.
;)

MB are more costly than other cars in some cases, but they were never supposed to be cheap to own. Most of these cars were made for people with money, who wouldn't bat an eye at dropping $1k to fix a seat or $2k to fix a cracked cylinder head. An S class was not built so the average guy could afford it. You could make a case for the C and E class, but there still expensive complex cars.

Are MB's really more complicated?

Toyota's and Lexus' have almost all the safety and convenience features of MB's.

ABS, ESP (called VSC by Toyota and Lexus), Brake Assist.
Pyrotechnic seat belt pretensioner.
Airbag, side airbag, side curtain airbag.

Yes but, the problem is that Mercedes always comes out with this technology first, and suffers in the quality ratings while they get the kinks worked out.

Remember that Lexus is a follower, not a leader, in styling and technology.

Isn't it funny that the current LS400 takes it styling cures from the W140 sedan?

I read on another forum that the new J.D. Power & Assoc. numbers are out and MB made it into the top 10....they are now #9.

My Mercedes and my Rolex...
 

I bought a basic stainless Rolex chronometer new in 1973...for about $350 full retail. At that time, Rolex was not considered a "luxury" good, rather the headline for their ads was "I Want A Good Watch". My two 240Ds date from 1981 and 1983, and both have proved durable, comfortable, simple and dependable.

Sadly, both Rolex and Mercedes have become "luxury" goods where the extra money they cost doesn't stand for value added in the way of better materials, simplicity, reliability, or design. Rather Rolex and Mercedes have become little more than vulgar statements of money spent. The latest indication I've seen that a new Mercedes won't give me anything more meaningful in a vehicle than would an Accord or Camry came in the latest issue of "The Star," where an illustration showed that the driver of an SL would soon be able to have the top down on a chilly morning while being kept comfy by jets of warm air squirting from the headrest...rather than a cloth scarf.

A character on the TV show Banacek once noted that material things were not so much a matter of new vs old but good vs bad: and that since there might be 200 years of "old" and five years of "new" to draw upon, that more good stuff was to be found in the past than in the present. I've found this to be true in both watches and cars, and look backward in time when I want to shop for something different. I feel I'm getting something better, and generally holding on to more of my money in the bargain.

I'll take a stab at that. My various 190E's were the least expensive cars I've owned, in terms of overall costs. They depreciated less than the Mazda/Acura/Honda cars we've had. They required repairs, but were driven a great deal more. On a cost/mile basis, they were amazingly inexpensive to own.

Our 1998 C230 is still under warranty, so I can't attest to it's "no warranty life" yet, but it's warranty repair list is a fraction of the length of any of the other new cars we've bought, including any Japanese car. Why do Honda/Toyota rate so well? For five to ten years, you can get really good service out of a typical Honda. Sure, things go wrong, but usually it's minor items. Honda's engines don't break at 50K-miles.

Luckily, the same is true for Mercedes. The major components are overbuilt to a point where it's almost ridiculous. But, the small stuff can drive you crazy.

A "simple" (relatively so) Mercedes can be the cheapest driving on a long term basis, as long as you don't sell your car every four years. Keep 'em for 15 or more, and that's where the real benefits become evident.

According to CR, MB's reliability is below average in FUEL and ELECTRICAL.

'Fuel' and 'Electrical' consist of 'major' components.

CR has seperate categories such as 'power equipment' 'body hardware', which do not consist of 'major' components.

It would depend on your definition. If you consider a fuel pump or relay "major" then perhaps. I am not referring to Consumer Reports. I am talking about my own experience. Engines, transmissions and final drive units last a long-long time. Engine bottom-ends outlast the car if cared for.

What are the specific beefs with the new cars? My uncle has a 2001 C240 and it's been flawless. I have another friend with a 2003 E320, and she's had a rough time, but the car is well sorted out now. She had some trim problems (the mirror glass came off, and some other stuff) but the dealer resolved them. The car's driveline is terrific and overall, it's long term prospects look pretty good. After 30K the engine is tight and strong. No worries.

The 722.6 tranny is well sorted out now, and has been for some time.

Problems with the M112? Harmonic balancers have been updated, and crank sensors can fail. It's not like the crank falls out.

All makes are having some OBD-II teething problems, including AAM problems. Subaru, Toyota, etc. have all had long lists of stuff. Toyota left many owners in the lurch with broken engines. It tooks some serious legal hassles before they stepped up.

I think that ATTITUDE is a huge problem with Mercedes. When someone is having problems with their car, MB often takes an offensive attitude. They need to begin working with people to make sure they come away happy campers that will buy again. People rank their car low when the company fights with them at each time they need somthing fixed.

Get a good dealer, and that changes. We have a dealer that is GREAT when it comes to warranty work. They work very hard to solve the problem and make you happy. And no nickle and diming. When my C230 had a pressure control spring go in the tranny, instead of replacing the spring (about $100 job, and would have fixed it) they instead decided to install an entire new tranny, converter and ETC. They thought it the best option since my 722.6 was an early 98 build and the newer version should be installed.

MB's problems could be solved to some extent by simply changing their, and the dealer's, attitudes towards their customers. It's too hit and miss right now.

Manny: Too bad about your Rolex. Both the Benz and as you know, the Rolex are quality products that "should" last a long, long time. The Rolex needs more TLC than the Benz. But the Benz is always fun to use, The Rolex does not tell better time than a Timex. Go figure.

Blackmerceds maybe I'm buying the wrong models but I was referring more to the S class. From my experience $3k Toyota's have been cheaper to own. Most parts cost about the same, but some MB parts can be up there, although the MB is much simpler to work on. But I think the least expensive way to drive is to buy a $3k-$5k Japanese car every 100K; plus a good Toyota, Honda, or Nissan is still worth $1500 with 200K on it. But I drive my MB becaause I enjoy it, and I enjoy working on it, when I don't anymore I'll move back to cheaper Japanese cars. Or hopefully will have enough money to buy a nice new one every few years.

comparing Mercedes to Lexus / Acura
 

My last two acura's started rusting at 10 years of age.
I dont see many Mercedes with any rust.
I believe their bodies are thicker.
Generally a 10-20 year old Mercedes still looks good.
If one buys them used, and can do one's own maintenance..us lay people can drive them as cheaply as a Chevy.

I do agree that older MB's can look great. My 95 S600 looks brand new. People are surprised when I tell them it's 10 years old. However, I disagree completely that they can be maintained as cheaply as a Chevy. I do most of the maintenance on the car myself. I recently replaced the Steering Angle Sensor, and next on the list of to-do's is a faulty front passenger seat occupancy sensor. For one thing, Chevy's don't have optical encoders in the steering wheel. There are many other hi-tech items in these cars that Chevy's don't have. As other's in this forum have said, if you buy an MB, especially a V12, be prepared to shell out big bucks for the parts.

:D

I don't think ANYONE would debate the point that a W140 V-12 is an expensive car to look after!

A V12
 

I would not say a V12 Mercedes can be driven as cheaply as a Chevy.

My ML320 Hill Billy Built ,, purchased used vs a new GM - with depreciation factors etc,..Is how I rationalize driving a Mercedes.

One can do about anyuthing with statistic's ya know, ..so I twist them to feel better about myself.

Truth is my Acura Legond went to 140,000 miles before I sold it and I did nothing but regular expected maintenance.
My signiture show what Ive had to do in the last 15,000 miles with the Mercedes truck.

The ML drive so tight and brakes so good... life is full of trade offs.

Re: comparing Mercedes to Lexus / Acura
 

When purchasing the ML a few weeks ago, the very knowledgeable rep. told me Mercedes uses a 47% tensile strength steel on the ML (not sure if that applies to all current models), while the Toyota Sequoia has a 20% tensile strength. (The rep. previously worked for Toyota.) This shouldn't have any factor on rust potential, that's where good paint and sealing comes into play. That said, the body of my 126 has to be double that, but that could be the 7 coats of factory paint. ;)

I can't say too much on M-B reliability, since I'm a rookie (just 1 month of experience in the field ;) )

On the other side, I grew up and live now in Eastern Europe, where poorly built cars are the norm, be them local or Korean :p poor metals/alloys, engines that need rebuild after 100,000km (60K miles), poor interior materials, noise and a supension that rattles your fillings loose. By comparison, the W124 is a tank from the Wehrmacht. And the parts are not as expensive as one may think - roughly the same price class as Daewoos, Hyundais, KIAs and others . Plus there are the independent parts dealers and the boneyards that dismantle cars in good condition after accidents & stuff.

As long as I maintain it carefully(I'm a DIYer), I expect it to hold well... future will tell who's right

~Nautilus

PS A lady I know drives a Toyota Corolla from the early 1990s which looks & drives like new :p

You guys are scaring me - 28 pages of horror stories. I've been looking to replace this old dog below. Took a hit when someone ran a red light, and the insurance money has me thinking of getting something more modern with the latest creature comforts. A 90s 500E would be my dream (I collect Porsches and think of it as a 4-seater Porsche), but the E420 or S420 seems the right price and not much off in performance (as well as easier to find). Now I'm wondering if I should just fix the old RR up and keep on truckin' and forget the latest doodads...

http://home.att.net/~epbrown01/1966-rolls.jpg

Emanuel

epbrown

Don't base your purchasing decision on what the whiners & wannabe Lexus drivers around here are saying. ;)

I don't agree with that exactly...in looking at the LS430 and the new S class car there are several "gadget" features that they both share...as well as some unique items to both cars

The situation is that MB tends to put an item on a car then take 3-4 model years to work the bugs out...whereas the Lexus cars to get it relaible the first model year.
As for the guy who spent $6000 on the 93 500SEL...thosed repairs are not atypical on the early 140 cars by any means.


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

epbrown, let me get this straight: You are going to give up a repairable Rolls Royce for a Mercedes Benz?

ARE YOU INSANE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?


For the love of God man, keep the Rolls! It will be worth much more than any Benz made in the last 40 years!

I want to know more about the RR. How hard was it to maintain? Did you do the work yourself? How expensive was it to keep? I have toyed with the idea.

If you'd go with a late w126, like a 560SEL, well maintained, you'd be well off.

Moparmike - have you ever looked at the used prices of RR's?

And Bentleys?

Check them out on eBay.

They are lovely cars, but one does not buy them for the holding of value.

Rolls after 40 years.........

William Rogers...........

Listen to hbofinger!
 

Here's the story of the Rolls: I bought it 3 years ago on eBay for $6700. The inspection went okay, and after a bit of brake work and some paint, the car served me well. While the Silver Shadow has a reputation for being complex, bear in mind that's 1966 technology; it has proven no tougher than working on a similar-vintage Cadillac except for the hydraulics, which are identical to a similar-vintage Citroen, with a few British bits thrown in (Lucas electrics, SU carbs, Jaeger gauges, Connolly leather). Parts availability is improbably good, due to the fact that about 75% of all RR/Bs ever built are still on the road, and the respective marques like to keep it that way. I've gotten new parts for my '66 at the dealership, something I can't do for my Porsches that are almost 20 years newer. Plenty of tech help available, and the engine bay is easy to work in with plenty of room. I've done almost all of the work on mine myself, except for some brake work right after I bought it.

They are nice cars, very soft ride, but they do have that classic elegance that only the Brits seem to truly manage. The front seats are as big and comfortable as lazy-boy armchairs (over 30" wide each!), and the rear bench is essentially a sofa, complete with arm- and foot-rests. Wood everywhere, except parts covered with Connolly leather or chrome. It's essentially a mobile living room.

Why the depressed values? The Silver Shadow is the most popular Rolls-Royce ever made (30,000 or so), and so you can get running cars for under 10 grand, concourse winners for less than 20 grand. They're simply too common to be really valuable, and they mark the beginning of the "modern cars" with unibodies. The darling of RR/Bentley collectors are the separate-body/chassis cars. Read an issue of "Sports Car Market" if you want a bit of the prevailing attitudes towards the Silver Shadow; they loathe the car over there, somewhat unjustly imo.

Like most high-end marques, once prices fall you get cars in the hands of people that simply won't care for them properly - the folks that wait for something to break, rather than proactively maintaining the car, which leads to some pretty ratty cars out there letting the side down. As the saying goes "There's nothing more expensive than a cheap Rolls-Royce." I got really lucky with mine, it was cared for by someone that loved it and sold by his son after his death, who didn't give a damn about it - he wanted Dad's Ferrari and that was it. The RR was a steal.

As for why a MBZ: my other cars are Porsches because I like driving, and German cars have better driving dynamics than any others, in my experience. The biggest complaint I have about my RR is that while it's pleasant to ride in, it is no fun to drive. Mild turns require coming to an almost complete stop, agressive maneuvering upsets the car totally, the comfy seats offer no lateral support. There's a bit of suspension tuning you can do, but it's pretty pricey and still only a drop in the bucket towards resolving the issues.

Even the most decadently luxurious German car is made to drive well, so when my thoughts turned to replacing the RR rather than repairing it, BMW and Mercedes-Benz were the makes that came to mind. BMW's idea of luxury seems to be "add more gadgets" rather than true quality and comfort, imo. As I mentioned earlier, my ideal is a car that combines driving performance as well as luxury so the 500E/E500 is the pinnacle for me, but they're scarce and expensive. A mildly hot-rodded E- or S-class would suit me, I think, since they'll be comfy and fun to drive while I have the Porsches for those times I want all-out driving performance.

Then I started reading the horror stories in this thread :eek: and now the RR is starting to look pretty good again...

Emanuel

Nautilus: And also don't believe that they need a lot of maintenace. My 200K mile C280 has only had it's oil changed, along with new tires and battery. Some BM owners just love to thinker with their car but most of this is just a way to spend a weekend. Even the factory has told new owners that the Trans are filled and sealed for life. So far this has been the case for my car.

interesting post about the RR. I've seen some really good ones go for less than 30K but I've always feared the outrageously high maintenance along with the dealer's attitude that I might have to face. I've had enough with the benz already and I figured RR would only be worse.
I havent really found any independent mech's who work on the RR either atleast none that I've come across in ny/nj area.
Where did you get your repairs done and what are the hourly rates for the RR service dept. if one opts to go that route ?

I do most repairs myself, but Chicago has a couple of independents that work on them. Rates are $65 to $85/hour, while the dealership I get parts from is $100/hour. The guys at the dealership - was Steve Foley RR, now Bentley Northbrook - are great and have always been there for me with technical advice when I'm there buying parts, especially Chuck Grant, the service manager.

New York and New Jersey are crawling with independents - most RRs seem to have migrated to the east coast, and all the biggest club events are there since the club headquarters is in Pennsylvania, near Philadelphia. Most of the indies only take RR/Bs, so you might not have run across them outside the circle of owners.

As a ball-park, I've spent around $500/year on maintenance and repairs in about 30k miles of driving, but my Shadow is an early one. The Spirit/Spur and newer cars are more complex as more features were added in those parts are pricey and few owners seem up to repairing them. As appears to be true of the 90s MBZs, you'll want to make sure everything works because nothing is a cheap, simple fix.

Emanuel

Emanual,

What kind of gas mileage do you get on the RR? What type is the engine, V8, ST6?

P E H

It's about 10/15mpg city/highway. The motor is the V8 used from 1959 until now, though it got slightly more fuel efficient once they switched to EFI.

Emanuel

I agree, but the problem are not the major components(engine, transmission, suspension, steering, bodywork) which may last a lifetime if properly cared for, but the electrics, gauges, sensors etc.... nowadays I have a pretty annoying problem with the mileage(High fuel consumption on my 260E-why?) - see how it goes?

~Nautilus

On ebay, I saw that RR's weigh 6000 lb. Even the 30 year old RR's. Wow.

I think that's the limo models like the Phantom V and VI. Mine weighs ~4750 lbs with all fluids and the newer cars tip the scale at around 5000-5500 lbs or so. I use drive-on ramps for some of the work, and mine are rated for 8000 pounds and I still get nervous down there :)

Emanuel

EPBROWN,

Don't get disappointed with all MB's, there are many of us on this board that have had very good luck with MB's new and old.

Here's my experience to give you an idea of why the MB ownership experience can vary greatly and why you may see such varied responses.

In 1991 my parents bought me (yeah I was spoiled) a 1984 190E with a 5spd in it. The car had 61K miles on it and looked in excellent condition. It also had some minor cosmetic modifications which sold me on getting the car. After buying the car I experienced what I feel was the best and worst ownership experience of any cars I've owned. The clutch went at 78K, the sunroof was repaired 3 times ($300ea :eek: ), the engine mounts went south, leaking hydraulic cylinder (it was a 5spd) and to top it off I had to have two valve jobs at 90K miles. The dealer screwed up the first one and had to do it over. No they didn't charge me but they held up my car for a MONTH!!!:mad: But of all the cars I've owned (with exception to the 500E) it was the most fun to drive and it took the abuse I gave it as a teenager something I can't say about my next car. It still looked perfectly new when I traded it in 6 years later for VW (worst mistake I ever made). I traded it in to the same dealer I bought it from BECAUSE I FOUND OUT IT HAD SPUN MILES!!! That explains all the rediculous problems I was having at such low miles. The car actually had more than double what was showing on the Odometer at the time. Looking back it gave me faith in MB's quality and durability.

Needless to say I learned two VERY valuable lessons after trading that car. I used these lessons when buying my 500E. If you follow the steps that the regulars here post time and time again when buying a car you will insure yourself a better ownership experience. The steps are
1. Run a carfax
2. Get a good portion of the vehicles maintenance, if it doesn't exist walk away. Use the records and compare them to the carfax, mileage should match up with dates. Also check for reoccuring problems to avoid a lemon.
3. Have the car inspected by a trusted mechanic or dealer (PPI) $325 at the dealer
4. Test drive the car in person and look at the overall condition. PPI will tell you almost everything but you need to see if it meets your requirements too.
5. Find a GOOD local mechanic that you can trust (very important)
6. Buy the car!!! :)

Of all the cars I've owned the 500E has been by far the best ownership experience. It has had some minor issues (mainly rubber components) that can be expected from a high performance vehicle that is 12 years old but overall ALL of the major components (Engine Components, A/C, Tranny, Diff, Engine, Chassis) have worked flawlessly beyond my expectations.

I think many on this board will concur with what I've stated. :)

I think both Cap'n Carageous and benz300 are good candidates for a 24 mo term revolving lease. Just get a new car every couple years and be happy.


[QUOTE=Cap'n Carageous]The scorecard so far on my 89 300E:
Radiator
Foglight lens (2)
fan bracket, idler pulley, fan pulley, tensioner shock
A/C compressor, high pressure coolant hose and dryer
OVP, fuel pump relay, coolant temp sensor, O2 sensor
CIS-E control unit (ouch!!)
Fuel pumps (ouch twice)
Climate control actuators( Woohoo!!)
rear brake discs (not bad)
Transmission
complete head job including all new valve guides, timing chains and guides
New front and rear crankshaft seals
front flex disc
radio
fuel pressure regulator ( why does that thing cost that much?)
Antenna mast
Flywheel sensor
And water pump (come on..$230 for a damn waterpump??)

Still needs; Fuel distributor, all new injectors, engine wiring harness, belt tensioner, neutral safety switch and rear window regulator
QUOTE]

As for all this - is it just remotely possible your mb was born on a Monday? You know - the fabricators all showed up with a hangover?

Seriously - my W126 has had all this (except for radio) and more (like the coveted valve job and ). It's all worth it. I keep in that the car is 16 years old. Things will ware out. The car drives great, and gets alot of 2nd looks.

Get New Every Two ? Perhaps with a deep 6 digit income.
 

Saw and ad for a ML350 lease this week...
$2600 + - at signing.
$499 a month for 2 years. + tax
___________________________

$15,295 to rent a truck for 24 months ?

18 months ago I paid $13,500 for my 1999 ML320. It's all mine.
even with my repairs
- Rear shocks
- crankshaft position sensor
- window switch
- fuel pump and filter
With my own labor, I still am not up to the 24 mo. rental fee.
Life is full of choices. I'll take my savings and pay for my daughters college.

Solid, but not reliable
 

I have to add my 2 cents worth. Don't buy a Mercedes if you are looking for reliablity. You are buying a comfortable, stable, heavy duty car, that might be worth the continuous cost of high maintenance that it takes to keep it on the road. Because when everything is working, it is very satisfying to drive, and feels great.

If you want cheap, decent transportation, that is reliable, skip on past the star. Get a Honda or a Toyota. My Mercedes is the least reliable car I have ever owned, and has the highest repair cost of any car I have owned..... but I still like it. My wife hates it, because everytime we think that we are going to have some disposable cash, the Mercedes eats that cash in a hurry.

My car is very, very well maintained. It just is not designed well, and is difficult to work on. Water pump, belt tensioner, noisy lifters, jerky transmission, sagging springs, oil leaks, poor fuel economy, intermittent stalling that comes and goes randomly, warping door panels..... literaly, my 1972 El Camino is holding up much better, is easier to work on, and parts are dirt cheap, and the El Camino is worth more than I paid for it!!!

But I still like my Benz. It's like a continuous hobby to keep everything going at the same time. But I like the way it rides, and is still stable and strong.

I just won't drive it out of town anymore.... for that I take my 72 Chevy, because I have a better chance of getting home.

cheap ? Honda Toyota ?
 

My 3 previous vehicals were Honda's.
2 were Honda Acura Legends.

by cheap, do you mean $25000 for an accord vs $35000 for a class c ?

Except for the thicker steal, I think my Mercedes is cheaper quality than my Acura's.

then there's the cheap Avalon ? one of the highest rated sedan in initial quality.

How many miles have you owned it for? 200K and only oil and tires and battery? If that is true then park it and immediately call the "Unsolved Mysteries" TV show. Maybe Mercedes would give you a million dollars so they can study that car and see how they made a reliable one.

Mike

I understand Schwinns are long lasting. I always put used oil on my chain. Free. Got the tires (both) pumped up at the gas station which was also free. There comes a time in life when Schwinns and Hondas and Toys are just not satisfying. I would not argue with PeeWee about his bike being more economical than my Automobile. PeeWee is right. Costs of fuel, $0.00. Costs of oil and other such. 0.00. PeeWee gets a lot of attention when he is riding down the street. But I still love my Mercedes Benz.

I hope that isn't too harsh.

Dan

Dan,

You forgot to mention the free air conditioning.

Mike

inetd so did you finally buy an S600? :cool:

MB relieability
 

My '97 C280 has over 200K miles. To date I have used synthtic Castrol 5/50. I have done one thing that is essencian. I never let the dealer work or sevice the car. They dislike their jobs in general and it seems that some of the work request is not done. By driving such a simple car as a Mercedes, they don't seem to need a lot of attention. Of course new tires and brake pads, don't turn the rotors or change any of the fluides (trans in particular). Other than that, they remind me of my Dad's '53 Chey,except they cruise much better. Only introducing Crysler parts will deter me from buying another MB as everyone knows Cryslers are, and long have been junk.

Oh yeah I would love to buy a car from you! :rolleyes: Shot coolant, brake fluid full of water and a trans that is on borrowed time. What about the air filter is that original to? I know people that maintain cars like you! My dads good friend bought a new 99 Ford F150 and ran 200k miles on it doing exactly what you do. Sure you can do it to a new car but as they age it will bite you. I stay away from cars owned by consumers who throw them away, I have fixed so many problems on my SDL just because the po did what you do!

Where have you guys been?
 

I don't get it. Maybe it's just a quirk. But my best friend bought a brand new E320 2 years ago. It was in the shop continuously, and not for ash tray calibration. We're talking major stuff. He sold it a couple of months ago for a Lexus. He liked the Mercedes ride better, but he was afraid to drive out of town with it. A real, bonified POS.

There are about 6 Mercedes here at work, and we are all concerned that our love of the star is misguided. As we trade notes, we are often surprised at how many problems we are all dealing with. This is new, old, and middle aged Mercedes.

The new C class is failing miserably in reliability ratings in all major publications.

No Mercedes is on the "Best used car list". There is a 5 series BMW on there, which is encouraging, but not one Benz.

Benz has also fallen off significantly in the devaluation area. They used to be number one as far a low depreciation. Now they are just average.

I think that Mercedes had a prime time where they were indeed superior to the competition, but now this time has passed them by. Wake up and smell the roses.

Take a close, open minded look at some of the cars that are being offered by the competition. They have come a long, long, way in the last few years, and are offering some pretty incredible cars now, with very good performance, at a fair price, with high reliability ratings, and great warranties.

Even though I have said all of this, I will probably try to hold on to my Benz just because I like the way it rides, looks, and feels solid. But my wife will probably make me get rid of it, because it is a money pit. You know what, I think she might be right!

Unfortunately Mercedes is not what it once was. Many people don't like to hear it but I expect Mercedes to have the reliability reputation of Jag in another 5-10 years. You can already see the devaluation in the resale values. An entire generation of potential new Mercedes buyers and enthusiasts is growing up with a Mercedes that has serious quality problems.

My impressionable car years were the late 80’s and early 90’s. Porsche, BMW and Mercedes dominated in virtually every fielded at that time. Today we have Porsche that has dropped it’s race heritage and now supplies what some would say is an average turn key race car, and very average street machines. BMW has destroyed a once legendary exterior design and one of the most ergonomic interiors with unneeded exaggerated exteriors and sparse complicated interiors. Mercedes has turned to quantity not quality and has damaged the heritage of over engineered to perfection.

All of these can be fixed, however a generation of buyers is being shaped by these changes. The once great German marks are being upstaged by new comers from Japan and some once greats in the USA. I would have NEVER in my life thought Cadillac would have been able to return from the pit of hell that the late 80’s was for them, but they have, so lets not lose hope !.

Actualy the newer Jags are pretty reliable, well for a Jag anyway. :rolleyes:

The prewar Jaguars were also thought highly reliable...
 

and writer/politician/enthusiast Alan Clark praised their indestructable, understressed engines, and wonderful performance and handling. Today's MB, BMW, and Porsche can be cited as examples of "The Culting of Brands", as described by marketing writer Douglas Atkin in a current book. We want to BELIEVE that these cars are everything they once stood for, even tho they're only sleepwalking, robot zombie shadows of their former selves. Each of these makes reached its epitome somewhere in the '80s, before cars became heavily infested with electronics...do we really need windshield wipers that can sense when it starts to rain? Is THAT progress? Or should we seek out and preserve cars from past eras that are simple, reliable, and solidly built? To me, the Mercedes was the last of the "20 year cars" that would last as long as a house if taken care of. Nothing today can you expect that kind of quality from...at any price.