Lexus LS has such things but is more reliable than MB's.


In terms of safety, I suspect that MB still stands out.

The pictures below show that MB cut the size of the curtain airbag to smallest possible size (barely to pass the IIHS test) to save several pennies while Toyota cut the size far less than MB.


In the real world, driver may lean forward. So small driver's head in MB C class will not be protected in side collision. But it will be protected in Toyota Camry.

The pictures are with 5 percetile small female dummy.


2005 MB C class
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat..._3_screent.jpg

2004-2005 Toyota Camry
http://www.hwysafety.org/vehicle_rat...15_3_grabt.jpg

Why all the drama? Stand up, already.
 

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding this question, but I don't think so.

Is the MB too troublesome? That's a personal decision. If you find your particular car troublesome, GET RID OF IT. Stop trying to justify the fact that the car is more than you want to take care of. Stand by your personal experience, but don't look for me to bolster it by saying that MBs suck. Stand up for your feelings. Does their validity depend on everyone on the forum's agreeing with you?

The day I find my 1994 E320 too much bother, I wil get rid of it. I will not try to get the world to agree with my assessment. I will not spend hours trying to convince everyone around me that MB is the King of Slacker Car Manufacturers. I didn't buy my car to resell, so depreciation means nothing to me. I make my decisions for myself, and I don't need 500 voices behind me in order to hear my own.

Get a Lexus, get a Honda, whatever. Just pick something you enjoy, and drive it! Life is too short to be unhappy with choices over which we have total control...

I think maybe you did misunderstand the question. The question is general in nature.

I have been satisfied with cars that are total garbage, that was because I loved the car not because it was a quality car. My Father has a DeLorean he will swear by, I can tell you in no uncertain terms it is a total load of trash. Nothing on it is well engineered, yet he will fight me on that till the end of time.

I think the point here is not weather you are personally satisfied with your purchase, but rather if there is a general downturn with Mercedes, I think this can be reasonably accepted as true. It by no means should this reflect on your ownership experience.

I have some Delorean parts if you need some.

I agree that those who don't take care of their cars are foolish. However some people abuse their ride and don't know it. MB's are not race cars, come with pretty good paint, cost too much, but mostly they are as reliable as a Chrysler or Chevy. MB will be bought out by a bigger Japanese Company and their quality will return to what it once was. When that happens, I'll buy a new one. Fortunaly I have never had to buy a used car or anything. To date my benz works just fine.

Are you predicting that Damlier-Chrysler will get bought by Toyota?

Hopefully I will be long dead by that time....although the way Germans are with national pride this doesnt seem likely at all thankfully .. :D

I'm amazed this thread is still going on, since I posted to it in April. If anyone's curious what I ended up doing: the insurance company totalled the Rolls out, as I think I mentioned. I bought the wreck and sold it to a RR club member for $2000 (double what I paid), and he's about midway through restoring it. I already owned a 1983 Porsche 911 in Guards Red with black interior, so I used the $9000 to complete the set - I now have the 1983 Porsche 944 (only $2000?) and 928 ($7000) in the same color scheme. That leaves me with all the models sold in the US for that model year, since the 930, 924, and 924 turbo weren't sold here at the time.

Still on the fence about getting a Mercedes, though, perhaps continuing the 1983 theme...

Emanuel

Toyota can afford it, but come on the Germans sell a company to the Japanese? Mercedes? That will be a cold day in hell.


But the British did sell Rolls and Bently! Not to mention Jag.

"What the Germans couldn't do with their bombs they did with their check books"

I like that quote!

Mercedes Quality
 

In my opinion, MB is down grading the quality of its cars with the justification of owning Chrysler. That said MB will suffer bigger loses if this happens while for the short term the bottom lone will improve. They do not (still) believe there is a market for a "finely" made auto. MB 'aint what they used to be.

While I'm new to this board, I'm not new to this issue, having been part of the discussion of it on other boards. The majority (but not all) of the quality problem seems to have originated with the introduction of the current body styles, and seems to be concentrated in the early part of each model run. A friend bought an 03 E55 AMG which was the first year for this body style. It was a nightmare. He then bought an 04 CLK whose body style dated back to 01 and finds it flawless. I've got too many stories like this to tell. And my own 04 C 320 has giiven me the most trouble free first year experience (what J.D. Powers measures) in 45 years of car ownership.

It is just my theory, but it seems to me that the current body styles (and all the new stuff that went with them) were simple rushed to production before they were "fully cooked." Next quarter's issue of "Star" magazine is supposed to have an article on this subject, including an interview with someone from MBUSA. Perhaps that will be informative. At least we can hope.

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

I have worked on just about every car in the world for over a 12 year span,including dealership experiance on MB, RR, BMW, Toyota and Ferrari. I also worked at a Honda lawn mower dealer. Although I havent worked in automotive in 15 years so my information is a bit outdated this is what I belive to be true:

Honda is the most impressive company on the planet and they make the most reliable cars.

Since Honda seams to be well aware of this and it has gone to there head, Toyota may very well be the most practical car in the world to own.

Mercedes Benz is my favorite car and when I worked on them, 1988 and ealier, they were very reliable WHEN AND ONLY WHEN maintained by capable MB service technichians.

The biggest problem with the Japanese cars in my opinion, is they are extreamly boring oridinary cars.

The Japanese cars have a level of popularity going for them that makes them familiar to the general masses of automotive sevice technichians, where as the MB lacks this popularity. This means that if you bring your MB to an average service station, even a reputable one, it may very well be the first time that station ever worked on an MB. This really means that the only safe means of having you MB serviced is through an MB dealer.

I dont know if you purchased your car new or used but when purchasing a used MB verifying service was performed at a dealer becomes much more important than for most other cars. Also the cost of MB service is most likely affordable to the average MB new car buyer, but when these cars enter the used car market and become attractive to people of lesser incomes the likely hood that they were maintained by a MB dealership becomes significantly reduced. I just purchased a used 560SL, with 102,000 miles on it, which if I was not able to service myself I would not be able to own it if it was given to me.

Also I have found with any car, dealer parts are significantly better, and that is all I use on my three other Fords. Unfortunatly I will not be able to use Dealer parts on my 560SL due to the high cost. I will need to buy after market from places like this. I hope my 560SL doesnt deteriorate due to that.

My other vehicals are a 93 Ford Taurus 200K miles, 92 Ford Taurus 156K miles and a 92 F150 Pick up at 150K miles. All these cars performed very reliably and cost effectively through there life span and I suspect the 93 Taurus will do 300K miles if I want it to.

John Roncallo

Actually dealer parts seem to be very competitive, the vac pump on my SDL is a perfect example of this. Fastlane can get you oem quality parts at great prices.

Btw Mauro motors has cheaper parts, Fairfield seems to charge at least 10% more.

Although their is a dealer in New London that is supposed to be very good.

Quality, Mercedes Benz
 

I to have a "last" body built before the new cars. Mine has been trouble free since new " I would never buy" a used car since I already have 5 used cars. Thus said, I still don't think you should pull on Superman's cape. spit into the wind and never ever have your car serviced by a dealer. Of course dealer can and sometimes remidy warranty items (many it seems, just like Ford and Chevy did 35 years ago. I would never knowingly buy a Ford or Chevy, Dr. P. R. Fearing. P/F s/j






c

Light weight tires
 

Hoping to reduce any unspung weight from my MX5 Turbro. can you folks "correctly" tell me who makes the lightest tire with reasonable handling?

You should start by seeing if you can get lighter wheels. I didn't think their was such as thing as "light" tires?

Lighter tires are possible, as are lighter wheels. Check out tirerack.com for specs on tires and wheels, including weights. But what does this have to do with the reliability of MB cars?

Thanks,
Richard :confused:

My opinion on part of quality is dependent on part suppliers, engineering, assembly, and organization. Consumer Reports have reported that the avg. car maintainence problems is with the Japanese cars arcing above this avg. car problem line and Germans and US cars arcing below this same line.

Being a DIY and buying parts and repairing all the above. I find that parts play a pretty heavy role with superceding parts and various parts. I do not know if it is the sourcing of the parts, but Japanese cars are being outsourced just like the German and American cars. Does it contribute to the quality of the cars? Probably. My Lexus oil filter is no longer being made in Japan, but in Thailand. It is not just where it is made. Though, quality control does play a major role,but the design even something simple as a oil filter. If you look at the bottom of the oil filter and the construction even of the outside. You can see a major difference between the one that is made in Japan vs made in Thailand. The one made in Thailand looks like worse than a AC Delco filter and being charged around $10. No thanks.

I just think in the age of hybrid and maybe even nitrogen cars soon. Mercedes cars in the luxury market may still be a good bang-for-the-buck against Supercars such, as Ferrari, Bugatti, Porsche, but against cars that cost less and more practical. It may not be worth it. BTW, has anyone driven the new 507hp, V-10 BMW M5? Whatever happened to the gentleman's agreement between Mercedes and BMW? Has it flew out the door?

All new cars are increasingly tied to dealer service...
 

with each model change the mandatory diagnostics and other electronic "aids" needed to service any car multiply. This shuts out many independent shops that can't afford (or maybe can't even get) the needed gizmos. The revenue stream from service is now a very important part of every dealer's economics. I have a very good friend, an ace mechanic who had put in 15 years at a Cadillac dealer, who at a mandatory training session learned that "...there is no more room for craftsmanship in auto repair" and that henceforth he would be a "technician". He quit the next day and now has a new career in construction.

The whole "new" car process...selling...servicing...owning...has become a shameless drama of exploitation and mendacity.

ive been around all types of cars and had alot of experience w/ them. it all comes down to this: every car manufacturer has its good models and bad models, good years and bad years, look @ ford i worked at a reputable ford dealership and i swear they design theyr transmissions to go out at low mileage, its a big joke @ work but ford sells more cars than any other brand because its a ford. so they keep coming in with there bad trannies with $$$$ hanging outta theyr pockets to fix with a smile, even 4 or five times lol. but if u cant understand the quality in mercedes benz, go buy a ford then talk to me. good example was the escort the 190e competitor both low end models and both junk in my eyes but ill take a 190 any day. but would never buy one and or spend 10,000$ fixing one. once again its not the car its the owner. so u chose to buy your parents 190e <----was your first mistake shoulda bought a S class ok then if u had to put ten grand into it it would last another 300,000 miles. ok "ignorance is bliss isnt it" i wouldnt know though so tell me more about it.

C(V6), E and S are all in least reliable model list
 

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/autos/cr_auto_reliability/
2004 CR

I just read the link and in the list of 'most reliable cars', corolla at the top! need I say more ? :)

benz300 need you say more ?
 

yeah, you selling your mercedes for a more reliable car ?

I bought my daughter a Civic. I thought they were the most reliable.

I did less to my acura in 150,000 miles than Ive done to my ML320 in 18 months of ownership.

I drive by an MDX or Pilot and wonder why the Germans cant build them that reliable.

Color me optomistic >> but my [relatively new] experience with my C230 has been one of JOY. I mean the car is fun to drive...

As far as Mercedes engineering >> from what I've seen >> Mercedes engineering is top notch...

I bought my 97 C230 from an auction > so I was unsure of the cars previous maintenence history > so the first hting I did was to pull a major service on it

Front brake pads > easiest brake job I've ever done
Fuel filter > superb engineering mounting it on the rubber shock isolation..
pollen filter > piece of cake
oil change > once I had the correct tool > piece of cake
air filter > couldn't be easier
coolant flush > very clean... nice touch with the spigot where you can add a piece of hose to direct the coolant into a container
brake bleed > no problem

From the looks of alternator and water pump > both are accessible >> unlike some cars...

Just note the fact that the hood can be raised to a 90 degree up position>>> you know how much more room that give you to the engine compartment ??

Note that jack points / jackstand points are so straightforward...

I've done my fair share of "brain surgery inside a phone booth" with my BMW 2002, Porshe 911, 87 Toyota Corolla beater, Dodge Durango.... and the Benz has been the easiest vehicle to work on..

nah>> from my crawling around my benz >> things are laid out pretty good...

My only criticism is lack of tech manuals... the best I have is a haynes... wish Bentleys had a C230 manual..

Mercedes is too troublesome.........................
 

that's the reason my dad's 1954 170DS was driven everyday until 1980, and I have had assortment of *troublesome* Mercedes, upto and including a 2000 ML320 that did not visit the dealer once for any unscheduled work after the 4,000 mile work that I insisted to have done, car came with a host of niggling problems that should have been corrected at PDI(pre delivery inspection)but wait a minute, the ML is made in the USA :rolleyes:
Please ship all your troublesome Mercedes to Port Klang, Malaysia FOB ;)
Thank you.

This thread has been going for far too long, and here is my reasoning: If you own a Mercedes Benz and are unhappy with it then why are you here at a site for enthusiasts for the marque? If you think your car is a POS and the company who made it is equally a POS, then I would suggest that you sell your Benz, go buy the utopian vehicle you think is made from...whomever... and live life without what obviously upsets you so much! I am SO tired of whiners! If you don't like your situation in life then change it....the same goes for the automobile you own!! This SHOULD be the last post in this thread. Bottom line is: You do not have to own a Benz....if you choose to, then love it or leave it, but please stop whining!

Just men having spirited chat- banter.
 

let me get this straight. You are whining about whiners.

Wrong Steve D....I'm simply stating the facts of (automobile ownership) life!

Well said Plink49, I agree completely. I am sure there are plenty of Lexus forums for dedicated follwers of a brand with few issues (or soul) :D

Amen!

And there are some of us who own those so-called "troublesome" newer models who have had PERFRECT experiences with them. J.D. Powers reports on first year experience. Ours, with our MB has indeed been perfect. I can only hope that all our future cars pose so few problems.

As to older models, nobody should buy an older model of ANYTHING unless he or she is mechanically inclined. And at least older MBs are WORTH fixing!

Thanks,
Richard :) :) :)

I love Mercedes and there is no substitute when it comes to safety (and isn't that more important than anything else). I would take a side impact in my 1984 300SD anyday over any American or small Japanese car. That said, I had 1980 and 1982 Honda Civics that over 280,000 miles when I sold them both still running and legal. I had a 1989 Nissan Sentra with 225,000 on it when I sold it to a friend- everything worked even the a/c. My 1987 Toyota P/U had 240,000 on it when I sold it the other week, this was a work truck (and got worked hard) with 1/10th the maintenance needs of the MB. My mother's 1990 Honda CRX has 250,000 on it and has never even had to replace so much as the alternator (excluding clutch and brakes). My 300SD was my father's (original owner) who maintained it meticulously, and has been a great car to me but it does need REGULAR care to maintain that MB quality and reliability. And the cost factor is so much higher than the Japanese cars (what is more expensive to fix though, your car or your mangled up body after a wreck in a little tin box). I know this probably doesn't count for much coming from a guy trying to sell his MB though does it??!!

Mercedes for Sale ?
 

then what would you replace it with ?
Volvo ?

Because, enthsusiasts, like you, and me, and everyone on one of these forums, are blind and overlook problems as "just maintainance" or "just upkeep" or "repair $ or $ for new car payment".... you know we twist problems to not seem so bad and come back for more potential problems down the line... Me, for example, on my third ovp.... after the first and/or second I was like "no prblem, just an ovp", then after the last one, I was like "f this POS, my former 74 pontiac was more reliable", now on my last ovp (I thiink, not sure, the car left me stranded), yesterday I was like "that's it, don't let me NOT sell the car, I have to sell it...." TOday, I am like, well, it ain't so bad , LOL.... and am accepting it :( ... and not calling it junk .,...

BUT when you look at it as a third person... they are not that reliable.... put it this way, I ran out of Tows on my aaa membership... and my g/f's FOCUS hasn't broken down one time, where my pristine, fully doc'ed 95 has let me down 4 times in 6-8 months..... Which I could just lease a new one or BMW :(

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=763478&posted=1#post763478post763478

That's my last problem.... WHen I bought the car (2nd Mercedes) I knew I needed to budget for "maintainance" ... no problem, but when the car starts leaving you stranded, no matter how simple the fix is, that is UNRELIABLE :( . I am going out with some freinds this wknd, and even my g/f said "we can go in their car" .... :( since my car left us stranded at the last concert we went to in the bad part of town where the parking was at!

SO how much do you say its OK on all these breakdowns for you guys? I am talking about items that break, don't just call it "maiintainance" type of things :confused:

Each time I fix something, I figure this is it... bam... another ovp, another relay :( ... fortunately its just been "inexpensive" type stuff

Bummer. Sorry to hear about your troubles.
 

I feel silly asking, like I should know this, bit what is an OVP that keeps breaking and stranding you ?
thanks

Yoshimurra,

If the same part continues to fail you, why not carry a spare to avoid being stranded? Or perhaps there is a root cause to your problem? a protection relay sacrfices itself for a reason...why does yours feel the need so often?

Well, as of last month I have been carrying a spare OVP, guess I need a spare FUel pressure reg... as well :confused: which defeats the problem, like you said something is causing it.... as for the fuel pressure reg, 2 in six months, maybe it was just the fuel filter dirty (????) in 30K miles and made the fuel pumps work more and the relay was getting hot?? I don't know I am guessing.

As for the OVP.... I guess it did get fixed last in AUg,... the source of the problem (getting wet), as it hasn't gone bad again.... but I went through 3 I think by the time they discovered the leaking water...

Still, problems ...

1995 mercedes reliability
 

How many miles do you have on this 10 year old Mercedes ?

In about 800,000km's of MB driving, I have been left on the roadside once. My Dad also has been left once. In an 87 190E of mine, it was -42C and I had not used fuel line anti-freeze. The fuel filter is in a bad spot for freezing, and I ended up on the roadside at -42C. Not happy, but I didn't let it happen again. Dad had the alternator on his 190E fail and had to have a tow. My wife had the voltage regualtor fail while driving one of 190's and had to be towed. That's it. Our Mazda 626 has been towed four times in it's life, which is pretty good for 17 years. Every car might break down as it ages. Even the best Japanese cars have things that make them stop.

I understand having a car you won't trust. That sucks. And it happens, and it happens with all makes. The least reliable car I ever owned was an Acura.

If you really have to have a car that has the least chance of breaking down, a Corolla is probably the best bet.

Hey,
I haven't posted on this forum in a while due to the fact that I bought a Porsche 944 and I've had Porsche on the brain for a while. Well, guess what? The porsche took me 5 months to get sorted out and fixed, and about 3 days after it was done (and I did a LOT of fixing) it just decided not to start for no apparent reason. The 300TD is STILL running. It's had a bad axle for about 3000 miles, and it's still going. I LOVE THAT CAR. Mom's porsche is breaking, dad's porsche is broken, dad's chevy is broken, my porsche is broken. Although, dad's benz is also broken :(. No I'm not rich, we just have a lot of cheap cars. The only thing wrong with my dad's benz is the CRAPPPPY benz tranny. Benz can't make transmissions. Dad's 928 also has a benz tranny and thats the broken thing on it. The tranny on my 300td flares often, and the one on my bro's 300d slips all the time.

Moral of the rant: benz is awesome except for their transmissions. And the C class.

I just love people whining about problems on their 20 + year old cars.
Maybe when you grow up you can go & design/build transmissions for M-B.
Btw. Noooooo problems at all with my " C ". :rolleyes:

who's whining ?
 

so manny, if I am correct, you are whining about whiners.

Admiral Ahani,

Sorry for out of topic question.

I just want to know what flaring tranny means and what slipping tranny means.

I guess a slipping tranny rev's up at shift. But I have no clue what flaring tranny means.

That's funny, between my brother and I we have six Benz auto trannies, varying in age from 32 to 16 years of age, all with more than 200,000 miles on them, and the only problems we have had, are, litterally, two sets of leaking flex hoses to the cooler in the rad and a worn through steel cooler line.

I've personally been driving one or another of these cars for eight years, no tranny problems.

Your's must have been abused in a previous life, since I'm sure you are good about changing the fluid and filter on a regular basis.

Use synthetic tranny fluid next time, it's very nice.

Peter

Benz doesn't make good trans? :confused: Since when? It is not uncommen for a trans in a W124, W126, or W123 to see 300k+ miles. Heck mine is up to 243k and I know the fluid was not changed from 80k-233k. But she still keeps on ticking except for leaking and a minor slip every now and then. Once I seal it back up I expect this trans to last close to 300k.

Now Ford makes a crap trans.

Nope. Simply making a suggestion. Ho, ho, ho.
;)

94K miles, I have put 10K in the last 6-7 months.... Car has always been maintained at the dealer, I have maintained the car as well... so it isn't lack of attentin :(

My 94 E320 now has 80K miles and has no issues at this time. I would not hesitate to take a 2000 mile trip in it today.

I bought this 1 owner Dealership Serviced unit at 58K and have spent $7000.00 to address all the issues.

Knowing what I know now, would I buy a W124 or any other MB again? The answer is no. I would go with a Lexus LS400 or LX470.

After owning cars from GM, Ford, Mitsubishi, VW, Nissan, I have decided that my next vehicle will be a Toyota or a Lexus, no other car is more reliable, has better NVH and smoother ride.

I have a 1990 Lexus LS400 and a 1991 300CE. I follow one of the Lexus boards and there is no end to threads on people buying 10+ year old Lex's and crying about repairs. I like my Lexus. The engine and tranny are still butter smooth. From the boards I gather that the engine and tranny are long lived and problem free. It is the rest of the car that can drain your wallet. The P/S system in first gen (1990-1994) cars is weak. A dealer overhaul of the rack, pump and line is a $3000 repair. Leaking p/s fluid if not caught in time, destroys the alternator and on this car is an expensive repair. The LCD displays go bad. The EGR valve is prone to breaking, an $800 repair.

I enjoy driving the Lexus more. The HVAC system makes the MB one look like it is from the stone age. Also because I think the MB might be worth more with the lower miles <g>.

glenmore
1991 300CE
1990 LS400

Manya, great, great photo. Take a look at Manya's photo. Study the "lines". Discussing hondas with new Benz models is fair game but to compare an old Benz to a honda, a joke. The old Benz models are glowing with pure class. Manya's photo tells the story.
New Benz models are loaded with computers and plastic. They are built to be junked. Old Benz models can be rebuilt, restored, the leathers replaced, the woods refurbished, and the drvetrains rebuilt. You drive a piece of art. With honda or almost every Japanese model, your sitting in a box. Simple, is it not?