The box was made by Sony as well as some of the mechicals.The software was a becker item.The Sony unit was probably actually reliable.
Right now(and I know from true experience) Becker NA cannot even fix these changers(CD980) as their parts supplier in Germany.
So unless you can find someone who has some parts on the shelf (like I did) or some one who can take parts from another changer you are out of luck...and this was the second time mine had gone out in 3 years by the way
That along with the bose amp was a pretty frustrating case.
And really that would not have bothered me ..if it had'nt been for the other $20,000 worth of work that had been done on the car when it was still in warranty at the dealer. 2-3 items had to be fixed twice.
On a recent "chat" with the Regional MB zone rep after my steering wheel power tilt function had stopped working again...I requested help from MB after the years time of the warranty on the original work($700).He said absolutely not and thought it might be a good idea to get rid of the car...I thought that was funny.he had also gone thought the service recorsd of the car and remarked "yes the car has had a lot of work...but it was under warranty...so why are you upset?"
He then told me I might ask the dealer to cover it as I had been a good customer of their for several years...then mysteriously the steering wheel started to power tilt again...go figure

amerika is the most important market for dc, right?

that being the case, why is it that the dc marketing gurus fail to offer us amerikans the same options as it offers germans?

for instance, i might become a customer for a new benz again if i could delete the KOMMAND system. and all the other glitch-prone electronics.

ABS i think makes sense. but beyond that. i don't think so.

imagine this, i have a s500coupe and i cannot make the seats fold forward without replacing a customer convenience module[eprom]. does this make sense?

i have a 560sec. it doesn't have this computerized interlock. i have to consider this c126 a more user friendly vehicle.

anyone disagree?

and this is a quality issue. a quality of thinking. dc thinking has become schremmped. and this is not a quality level of cerebration.

as long as schremmp, zetsche et alia remain the leaders of dc, dc will not be a quality producer of automobiles.

bad money devalues good money. sigh...

I couldn't agree more!

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

After reading all the post on this interesting thread it makes me wonder why MB and BMW would be in a gizmo race if the majority of their new car buyers didn't want this junk on their cars.Or are the MB owners on this fourm that different from the buyers they are trying to attract?

I can't imagine leasing a car as I find great pleasure in doing constant upgrades on my three ageing MB's plus learning the in's and out's of them from reading this forum and doing the actual work on them.Sure glad we can find rust free !26's and other older models here on the West coast.guess I'm just an old wrench turner at heart..........

William Rogers........

I notice no one has mention in this thread that the new MB's are actually cheaper(adjusted for inflation) than the cars of 10 years ago.
So the new MB that is being bought today actually costs less.

As for the electronic gadgets...I think some are great..other not so great.
I tend to be very in favor of the safety ones..multiple airbags,traction control,Esp,brake assist,seats that adjust to any and all drivers and positions

Some of the others(like my current vehicle has) such as the power closing truck and doors,power tilt steering wheel etc
may not be necessary and might provide a repair liability

HOWEVER,bottom line..I think for the current asking rpices of the cars they ARE worth the price...the new S430 is 78Knot 120K
And I think people are actually paying in the upper 60's after discount on those vehicles right now..only about 12-14K more expensive than the transaction prices for the LS430 which I think the S is a far superior vehicle is driving..however I think the LS430 is the more reliable car of record

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Unfortunately, we're in a minority. I sincerely believe people who buy these new high-end cars WANT these gizmos.

Have you ever talked to someone with money who is not a car person such as ourselves? You can see their eyes light up as they talk about their next purchase. Their conversation is about all the "goodies" that their next car will provide..... heated seats, driver memory package, on-the-fly adjustable suspension, heated steering wheel, side view mirror retract, radio volume controls on steering wheel... etc, etc. There's a lot of "cool" factor to this.... and you know how Americans like to look cool.

It is THESE people who buy the new cars, and for these people the manufacturers build cars. The cars are often sold after warranty is out. Manufacturers simply capitalize on the attitudes of these new car buyers.

Very few of my friends are car people. When I talk about how all these gizmos make a car complicated, expensive, and hard to repair, they give me this dumb look like I just came from another planet.

__________________
95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

What did people say about the 140 when it came out in 1991....bad quality?..too many gizmos?

I am somewhat confused...does quality mean dependability or longevity ...or both..or is one more of a factor than the other



Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Quality may mean different things to different people. In the automotive industry quality is defined as number of warranty defects per car.

And for the person that wants to be an informed customer, manufacturers nowadays are designing for parts to last through the warranty period. This means we'll be dependant more than ever on message boards such as this one to keep DIYers informed on the systematic defects present in their vehicles that are out of warranty.

BTW, it was about 10 or 15 years ago - long before I joined the ranks of MB - that I started reading in the automotive journals about MB going the route of more gizmos that actual improvement on dependability and longevity, and that this may hurt the MB image.

__________________
95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

that means that both the 124 and 140 were made to inferior standards of quality?




Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

I didn't say that. I only said it was a concern of the automotive journalists back then. I also said it depends on your definition of quality.

You did bring up a good point on cost. I looked back at the price of used MB's 20 years ago in an old copy of Hemmings. Now used MB's are very affordable. So, not just new MB's, but also used MB's are very affordable.

__________________
95 E320 Cabriolet, 159K

based on that criteria my personal car surely would not have been anywhere near the top of the quality list
As I recall going over the warranty/service work for the first 5 years of its life before I bought it...there was no less than $10,000 worth of warranty work done on the car.
The dealer told me this was average for a 140 when I asked was that amount excessive


Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

HOWEVER,bottom line..I think for the current asking rpices of the cars they ARE worth the price...the new S430 is 78Knot 120K
___________________________________________________
I think what most people want is a car that works....and is not going to be in the shop frequently even if the car is under warranty and it doesn't cost the buyer anything to have it fixed. Whether you pay 78K or 120K the object is to get a car that is dependable. The MB problems are caused by too many toys on the new models....goodies that you really don't need and are going to cause problems. And how the hell can MB sell the new S models fro less than they were selling for 10 years ago? I'll tell you how....they have cut corners on quality. MB now builds a car that hopefully will function until the warranty ends. Their marketing department thinks that many owners will trade within 4 years. So they build many items on the car to last 4 to 5 years...then watch out. Can you imagine the $$$$ problems that MB buyers of used cars will be be facing after the new models are over 5 years old. Not a pretty sight.

For the W126

In 2002, my '87 300SDL would've been MSRP at $80,480 USD.

In 2002, the '87 560SEL would've been MSRP at $105,200 USD.

That's approximately the values in today's money of what they would've sold for new. Prices are for models that have no extra features.

No heated seats, reclining rear seats, or footrests for the SDL.

But the 560 had them standard.

No fancy gadgets in these old cars, just a Becker Grand Prix radio with four speakers, airbag, power windows, door locks, seats, 2-way roof, and that's about it. The rest is build quality!

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

No fancy gadgets? The 560SEL came on board in 1986. Jeez, think about it. Airbag? That was a fancy gadget. ABS? That was a rare thing to find on any car. Climate control? That was a fancy gadget, as were heated seats, heated rear seats, reclining rear seat, and heated mirrors.

Self leveling rear suspension? That is a serious gadget!

The W126 was one of the most technically advanced car of it's day. It's just that we were in 8088 chip days, not Pentium 4+.

The race has just become much faster, is all. Honda says they're going to put airbags, ABS, ESP and so on in every car, even a base Civic. MB is seeking to put gadgets in to show that it's a luxury car, and that means wild things that a Civic won't have. Heck, "Keyless Go" is no available on the Prius for about $500. What does MB charge?

Welcome to the age of Bill Gates...

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

true those would have been the prices adjusted for inflation....but ask some one who purchased one of those cars new(esp 90-91 vintage)...they wer actually selling for 10-12 off the sticker...maybe after the LS400 came out?

One of my issue with the MB(and maybe all the Germans)
Why can the Japanese put the gaddets on the car and they work longterm...the germans,while making a car that drives incredibly seems to have a hard time with the relaibility of the gadgets....while you can look at a 4-5 year old LS400 thats NEVER had any electrical problems in 50-60K miles of driving


Warren
1992 300Sd 168K
Columbus Ohio