MB Quality - Page 6 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

DslBnz · #76 11-03-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by turnne1
true those would have been the prices adjusted for inflation....but ask some one who purchased one of those cars new(esp 90-91 vintage)...they wer actually selling for 10-12 off the sticker...maybe after the LS400 came out?

One of my issue with the MB(and maybe all the Germans)
Why can the Japanese put the gaddets on the car and they work longterm...the germans,while making a car that drives incredibly seems to have a hard time with the relaibility of the gadgets....while you can look at a 4-5 year old LS400 thats NEVER had any electrical problems in 50-60K miles of driving

Lexus gave them a tough time. I don't know why, but they did. To compare a W126 or W140 to a Lexus LS400 is sickening. I thought the car Lexus was gunning for was the E-Class. With the LS 400, the 400E came out to challenge it.

As far as the electro-gadgets, the Japanese have long been the best producers of reliable electronics. Germans should stick with what they know best: Build quality.

Before '90 I'd imagine Benz's were getting quite a bit over sticker!

Yikes, that would singe your wallet.

blackmercedes · #77 11-03-2003, 11:11 PM

Why did MB buy Chrysler? They should have bought Toyota! Then we could have MB bodies with Toyota gadgets.

Damn, the car biz would go broke. We'd buy one car every 25 years...

shane83SD · #78 11-04-2003, 12:45 AM

Family friend brought their 10K mile C320 to my home so that I can show them how to change engine oil. They like to be able to change the oil half way between the "flex" service interval.

The hood is hard to open, there is something that catches. The feel is much worse than wife's 98 C280.

The engine is new to me so I look around trying to find that "dip stick". There is none to be found. I did find a tube which is "open" at the back of the engine. I think their engine and air "communicates".

PS: After complaining to the "stealer" regarding the open pipe, the stealer is happy to sell them the cap.

gerryvz · #79 11-04-2003, 03:37 AM

MB dropped their prices dramatically for the 1994 model year in order to better compete with the Japanese luxury marques. This on cars like the 140 and 124 that had been previously sold at the higher prices.

Something had to give -- you can't sell a car for 20% less overnight without something giving.

In my view the late 126 sedans and coupes (1988-91) were the best of all worlds -- build quality, materials, lack of gimmicks, and replacability of individual parts, not modules. Individual problems could be diagnosed and fixed without the need for expensive integrated module replacement.

Starting with the 140, things started getting dramatically more modularized, necessitating replacement of entire assemblies when in fact just one simple part in the assembly went bad. From there, it's been more and more challenging.

All that being said, the drivability of recent Benzes is quite good. The 1995 E320 wagon (M104) that I currently own starts, idles, and responds far better than the 1992 300TE (M103) that we used to have. The electronic controls of the 104 engine are the reason for this. It's all a trade-off, I guess.

Cheers,
Gerry

turnne1 · #80 11-04-2003, 07:46 AM

Quote:

All that being said, the drivability of recent Benzes is quite good. The 1995 E320 wagon (M104) that I currently own starts, idles, and responds far better than the 1992 300TE (M103) that we used to have.

I have a bud in Texas with a 1995 E320 that just went through a mass air flow,flex disc, and wiring harness replacement in about a 60 day period....

after a cash outlay like that it makes you think twice about the other good points of the car.
I have been VERY fortunate with my personal car than in the $20,000 worth of repairs it has sustained in the last 4.5 years(75% of that in the first 2 years) all but about $1000 were paid for by warranty and a few other items were redone again after they had been fixed once by MB under their 12 month warranty

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Kestas · #81 11-05-2003, 12:54 PM

Interesting article in today's Automotive Report of the Business section. I tried to find a link, but it's only published in print.

Headline: "Cars become overloaded with gadgets"

Some interesting quotes:

"... After BMW introduced its iDrive system, which controls hundreds of functions but makes it extremely complicated even to tune the radio, sales of its flagship 7 Series sedan dropped by as much as 12 percent ...."

"... [it is] a technological marvel that no one can operate ..."

"... so complicated that Web sites have offered short cuts like those used by video gamers ..."

"... Lexus LS430 boasts one of the most manageable electronic navigation systems ...... the manual to operate it runs 178 pages ..."

So we finally have documentation that all these gizmos may at times actually hurt sales.

placo1 · #82 11-05-2003, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kestas
"... After BMW introduced its iDrive system, which controls hundreds of functions but makes it extremely complicated even to tune the radio, sales of its flagship 7 Series sedan dropped by as much as 12 percent ...."

So we finally have documentation that all these gizmos may at times actually hurt sales.

It may also have something to do with that silly looking rear end...almost looks like an afterthought.

gerryvz · #83 11-05-2003, 01:46 PM

Actually, it is documented that the trunk of the current 7-series WAS an afterthought. It was a last-minute design alteration requested so that the car could accommodate up to four loaded golf bags in the trunk.

No kidding.

If this is the type of thing that is driving design decisions, God help us!

Cheers,
Gerry

turnne1 · #84 11-05-2003, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Actually, it is documented that the trunk of the current 7-series WAS an afterthought. It was a last-minute design alteration requested so that the car could accommodate up to four loaded golf bags in the trunk

If a manufacturer determined the majority of its customer base who would buy its flapship vehicle would purchase it(versus competition) on the basis of golf bags.. thn I think any manufacturer would modify its design.....no matter what the design is...no matter how silly or brilliant...
because in the end its all about people buying the design
....a brilliiant design that doesn't sell is not really that brilliant..

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

blackmercedes · #85 11-05-2003, 08:18 PM

Compared to the last ML loaner I had (COMAND equipped) the C230 or the Subaru (or the ol 626 for that matter) are ergonomic DREAMS. Easy to understand HVAC controls, easy stalks with simple controls, etc.

That BMW is just stupid, as is the COMAND. On another board there are herds of W202 owners spending no shortage of time and money retrofitting the stupid thing into their car. I can't think of anything worse.

#86 11-05-2003, 09:41 PM

My '91 300E had an MSRP of $48,700 and an invoice price of around $39,900. In those days, Mercedes had a big markup.

I think around 1993 or 1994, Mercedes reduced the markeup to get their MSRP down to compete with the Lexus which was being sold at a loss to get into the market place.

Now Lexus has the big markup. Check out the prices on Edmunds.com.

Still, you can buy a new LS-430 for a lot less than an E500 and a whole lot less than an S-Class.

The S-Class is the better car but the Lexus has a much better reputation for reliability and offers a great buy in this price range.

The problem with Lexus is that there is no excitement at a Lexus dealership.

speedy300Dturbo · #87 11-05-2003, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bud
there is no excitement at a Lexus dealership.

I don't know about excitement, but they sure know how to treat customers at their dealerships. Free high speed internet, see through windows to the service bays (just a neat touch), lots of free food, drinks, candy, the list goes on.

blackmercedes · #88 11-05-2003, 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bud
...Still, you can buy a new LS-430 for a lot less than an E500 and a whole lot less than an S-Class.

Really? In Canada the LS430 sells for about $10-12K more than the W211 E500 and just a few though shy of a the S430SWB.

Let's face it, the LS430 is one incredible automobile, MB fan or no. It's got build quality, power, prestige, and is luxurious to a fault. Just too "mushy" for me. Well, I can't say that. I haven't driven an LS430, the last LS series I drove was the 400, and I guess the 2004 LS-series is going to be a hulluva car.

I think Lexus keeps Mercedes and BMW on their toes, and that's good for all of us.

#89 11-05-2003, 11:47 PM

Has anyone stopped to think that the Germans (mostly Mercedes) have done all the R&D on just about every major automotive inovation for years and years. Everything on a Lexus LS was invented by either Mercedes or BMW (almost all Mercedes).

Go through the list of safety and other features on a Lexus LS-430 and other than the variable intake manifold (BMW) it all came from Mercedes.

I can't understand why Mercedes gives this stuff away. Anybody that can afford to buy an LS-430 should be able to pay a premium for the safety features invented by Mercedes.

Toyota is a brilliantly run company who have been letting others do their R&D for years.

If I were smart, I'd buy a Lexus. I'm not smart so I keep on buying cars from the guys that have leading edge wind burn.

turnne1 · #90 11-06-2003, 06:30 AM

Quote:

I think Lexus keeps Mercedes and BMW on their toes, and that's good for all of us

I would second that....in my area of the country the MB dealers are weak....service,professionalism..etc

where the Lexus dealers are spectacular...and come to think of it I have NEVER heard anyone complain about a Lexus dealer ....I have heard a a myriad(including mine) about MB dealers antics.
Makes me wonder if they have lost than a few customers due to service at the dealership level.

Quote:

Has anyone stopped to think that the Germans (mostly Mercedes) have done all the R&D on just about every major automotive inovation for years and years. Everything on a Lexus LS was invented by either Mercedes or BMW (almost all Mercedes

That could be true...but it seems its takes the Lexus to make the improvements to make the innovations reliable.
I assure you if they could make an LS400 drive like my 140 I would trade TODAY.
My personal car is a two owner and for all practical purposes has been in the shop much of its life.People laugh when I say its has had over $20,000 in repairs in the last 5 years.
I told that to Lexus salemen when I test drove a car there recently and they didn't belive a car could have that many problems...and told me all I needed to do was trade for something reliable and the problems would be over.

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio