"Big problems" with a Mercedes?? That's an oxymoron!

does that mean that the tech's aren't trained well enough?

something wrong in that scenario


Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio

really?...you talk to many people that have owned one of the 92-93 140's cars....ask them about problems....there you will see the oxymoron..


Warren
1992 300Sd 169K
Columbus Ohio

The lead mechanic at the dealership that does the warranty work on the C230 was explaining to me how "simple" the C230 is compared to most MB's, especially compared to most 1998- models.


And I thought it was pretty complex!

__________________
John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

time to abandon our old benzes?

NOVEMBER 17, 2003
COVER STORY

Can Anything Stop Toyota?
An inside look at how it's reinventing the auto industry.
Yoi kangae, yoi shina! that's Toyota-speak for "Good thinking means good products." The slogan is emblazoned on a giant banner hanging across the company's Takaoka assembly plant, an hour outside the city of Nagoya. Plenty of good thinking has gone into the high-tech ballet that's performed here 17 hours a day. Six separate car models -- from the Corolla compact to the new youth-oriented Scion xB -- glide along on a single production line in any of a half-dozen colors. Overhead, car doors flow by on a conveyor belt that descends to floor level and drops off the right door in the correct color for each vehicle. This efficiency means Takaoka workers can build a car in just 20 hours.
The combination of speed and flexibility is world class. More important, a similar dance is happening at 30 Toyota plants worldwide, with some able to make as many as eight different models on the same line. That is leading to a monster increase in productivity and market responsiveness -- all part of the company's obsession with what President Fujio Cho calls "the criticality of speed."
Remember when Japan was going to take over the world? Corporate America was apoplectic at the idea that every Japanese company might be as obsessive, productive, and well-managed as Toyota Motor Corp. (TM ). We know what happened next: One of the longest crashes in business history revealed most of Japan Inc. to be debt-addicted, inefficient, and clueless. Today, 13 years after the Nikkei peaked, Japan is still struggling to avoid permanent decline. World domination? Hardly.
Except in one corner. In autos, the Japanese rule. And in Japan, one company -- Toyota -- combines the size, financial clout, and manufacturing excellence needed to dominate the global car industry in a way no company ever has. Sure, Toyota, with $146 billion in sales, may not be tops in every category. GM is bigger -- for now. Nissan Motor Co. (NSANY ) makes slightly more profit per vehicle in North America, and its U.S. plants are more efficient. Both Nissan and Honda have flexible assembly lines, too. But no car company is as strong as Toyota in so many areas.
Of course, the carmaker has always moved steadily forward: Its executives created the doctrine of kaizen, or continuous improvement. "They find a hole, and they plug it," says auto-industry consultant Maryann Keller. "They methodically study problems, and they solve them." But in the past few years, Toyota has accelerated these gains, raising the bar for the entire industry. Consider:
-- Toyota is closing in on Chrysler to become the third-biggest carmaker in the U.S. Its U.S. share, rising steadily, is now above 11%.
-- At its current rate of expansion, Toyota could pass Ford Motor Co. (F ) in mid-decade as the world's No. 2 auto maker. The No. 1 spot -- still occupied by General Motors Corp. (GM ), with 15% of the global market -- would be the next target. President Cho's goal is 15% of global sales by 2010, up from 10% today. "They dominate wherever they go," says Nobuhiko Kawamoto, former president of Honda Motor Co. (HMC ). "They try to take over everything."
-- Toyota has broken the Japanese curse of running companies simply for sales gains, not profit. Its operating margin of 8%-plus (vs. 2% in 1993) now dwarfs those of Detroit's Big Three. Even with the impact of the strong yen, estimated 2003 profits of $7.2 billion will be double 1999's level. On Nov. 5, the company reported profits of $4.8 billion on sales of $75 billion for the six months ended Sept. 30. Results like that have given Toyota a market capitalization of $110 billion -- more than that of GM, Ford, and DaimlerChrysler (DCX ) combined.
-- The company has not only rounded out its product line in the U.S., with sport-utility vehicles, trucks, and a hit minivan, but it also has seized the psychological advantage in the market with the Prius, an eco-friendly gasoline-electric car. "This is going to be a real paradigm shift for the industry," says board member and top engineer Hiroyuki Watanabe. In October, when the second-generation Prius reached U.S. showrooms, dealers got 10,000 orders before the car was even available.
-
Keep your eye out for this one:

WORLD BONDS-Investors sweat over Ford credit rating verdict

By David Wigan

LONDON, Nov 10 (Reuters) - Corporate bond investors are braced for a cut in Ford's credit rating to just above "junk" grade, with an exodus from riskier debt predicted if rating agency Standard & Poor's assigns the firm a negative outlook.

S&P said on October 21 that it might within four weeks downgrade Ford Motor Co's (nyse: F - news - people) by one notch to BBB-, its lowest investment grade rating. With a downgrade widely expected, analysts said market reaction may depend on whether S&P assigns a stable or a negative outlook to the world's No. 2 automaker, a key player in the corporate bond market.

"It is impossible to overestimate the impact of the Ford decision," said Jeroen van den Broek, head of investment grade credit strategy at ING Bank.

"Everybody expects a downgrade but will the outlook be stable or negative? It is unnerving because it is so uncertain."

Auto bonds sold off heavily following the CreditWatch placement, but later recovered. Selling has returned in recent days, however, reflecting worries about a negative outlook that would leave Ford's $180 billion of debt just one rating step away from "junk" status.

"The widening out of spreads reflects investor realisation that the negative outlook might just happen," said Bob Janjuah, head of credit strategy at ABN Amro. "At the moment I see the chances at around 52/48 in favour."

That could prompt an exodus from bonds of the Big Three automakers -- Ford, world No.1 General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people) and DaimlerChrysler (nyse: GM - news - people) -- costing investors millions of euros and driving up borrowing rates for companies struggling to compete against nimbler and more fashionable rivals.

The cost of insuring the three firms' debt against default in the credit derivatives market has risen sharply since S&P announced its rating review. Five-year credit default swaps on Ford were trading at 290 basis points on Monday, meaning it cost around $290,000 to insure $10 million of its debt against default for five years.

That was below the 300 basis points peak seen following the review announcement but still substantially higher than about 205 basis point in early October. Default swaps on GM and DaimlerChrysler have risen to a lesser degree, partly reflecting October auto sales.

"If Standard & Poor's goes with the negative outlook all three are going to get hit very hard," ABN's Janjuah said. "The wider market is also going to be hurt, especially cyclicals and credits with the lower ratings like the BBBs."

Ford's mighty presence -- it accounts for around 2.5 percent of the European investment grade market -- suggests the threat of a further downgrade could also trigger a sell-off in other euro corporate debt.

"Autos set the tone for the whole bond market so you will get an instant reaction right across the board," said Jonathan Todd, an auto industry analyst at JP Morgan. "The lower-rated names will be most impacted."

Names like Dutch electronics giant Philips Electronics and French luxury goods maker LVMH , perceived to be sensitive to economic recovery, could be among those hit, Janjuah said, with a widening in credit spreads of around 20 basis points in BBB and 10 basis points in single A.

BUYING OPPORTUNITY?

But for some, spread widening will present a buying opportunity. "We would see an negative outlook, and the resultant spread widening, as a chance to buy," said Neil Sutherland, a fund manager with Axa Investment Managers. "But we would buy GM rather than Ford."

"If there is a negative outlook we will definitely see some material widening and would then look to be buyers," said Juan Carrion, a credit analyst at Barclays Capital, who sees a 40 percent chance that the outlook will be negative. He expects the spread on Ford's euro-denominated 5.75 percent note due in January 2009 to widen on a negative outlook by 75-100 basis points.

Others believe that the potential impact of the decision may have been exaggerated. "If it goes negative I would expect Ford five-year CDS to widen about 20 basis points," said Michie Yana, senior credit analyst at Commerzbank. "Long-term it will stay at around 300." The rest of the auto-sector would be relatively unaffected, she said.

Should S&P assign Ford a stable outlook, corporate bonds are expected to rally, with Ford outperforming its auto peers.

"Ford and General Motors five-year cash bonds are trading at spreads of around 80 basis points," ING's van den Broek said. "If the outlook is stable the spread would trade back to around 30 or 40 basis points."

Copyright 2003, Reuters News Service

When I bought my 81 SD the compressor was frozen I removed it plus all other air conditioner parts.I wired the ele. fan to a toggle switch on the dash.I removed the cruise control.

I removed the cruise on my SE replaced the broken power antenna with a nice black manual one The air works so this is our hot weather car.

So maybe there's a business in removing all the silly gizmoes on new MB's, could sell them on Ebay.wonder what kind of car is underneath all the junk.I'll bet it would weigh about 900 lbs less and be a lot faster.........
William Rogers........

gerryvz,

Great explanation of the current market for leasing and Mercedes. I agree 100% that consumers have moved to this type of financing in order to get a better car than they could actually afford through a standard purchase. Also, with our "throw away society" people don't think cars are capable of lasting more than 50-60K miles, and they want a new car every 3 years. Manufacturers are making better looking, safer, and smarter cars than ever, but the underlying components suffer. And the buyer can't see these quality compromises.

As for me, I've only purchased 1 used car in my life, and that was my first car at 18 years old. After many new cars later, I intend to go used for my next purchase. As you said, these cars are coming back from 2-3 year leases with very light usage. I'll insist on a good manufactures warranty certification. As w126 said, let someone else take the major hit in first and second year depreciation.

__________________
Dave

1998 E320
2001 SLK320
2000 Lexus RX300

w126: scratch out "big". I dump most cars, as a lot of people do ,when problems arise. However, I believe MB's are almost maintenace free. (at least that is my experience) As I keep saying, don't spit into the wind, don't tug on superman's cape and don't take your MB to a dealer for maintenace.

albert champion- Actually nothing could've stopped Toyota. As today's Automotive News indicates, Toyota has marched past Ford as second largest automaker in the world. Way to go for a regular Toyota.

Quote:

Toyota passes Ford as No. 2
6-month sales tally signals a new order
Continuing its steady sales climb, Toyota Motor Corp. squeezed past Ford Motor Co. by 43,000 vehicles in the first six months of its fiscal year to become the world's second-biggest automaker.

This weeks issue of "Business Week" has a huge article, (the cover story) about Toyota. Interesting read.

They seem to be doing no wrong....everything they do is a hit at some level.

I seem to remember looking at something years ago that said if they kept going as they were they would be larger than GM in about 10 years.
They seem to be able to make economy car to luxury car with a very reliable piece and understand what the market requires for each type of buyer.
I think their market is such that when the Tercel guy grew up he bought a Lexus....and never left their brand stable...and both cars(per publications) are rock solid reliable


Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio

CR November 2003.

Predicted Reliability.

MB S430: Poor.
BMW 745i: Poor.
Cadillac Deville: Poor.
Lexus LS430: Excellent.
Lincoln Town Car: good.
Audi A8L: new.
Jaguar XJ8: new.

I heard they put more weight on power train, brake etc. in their reliability rating.



By the way, how can such unreliable cars sell much in Europe, especially in Germany?

Everyone hates going to repair shop, right?

Well I think they sell a lot of Japanese cars in Germany.
In the 7 or the S class it seems that the engine and trans are ok...its the "toys" that seem to break.
The Japanese seem to be able to get those "toys" to be reliable also



Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio

Japanese car companies do sell cars in Europe, but it is not a lot, especially comared to what they sell in the U.S.

There is an article in the current Business Week magazine that I was reading on an airplane yesterday about Toyota. The number of cars they sale in Europe is tiny, and their market share is in the low single digits.

Even Lexus cars are barely selling. Barely enough to register on the radar screen.

__________________
Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

Been to Germany many times and have always noticed the large number of MB's on the road. Of course everyone knows they are used as taxies everywhere. I asked a cabbie why he choose MB. The answer... they tend to give little trouble and will usually go about 300K miles before any mechanical work is requierd. Hey, the folks have to drive a car that keeps on going like the bunny. Go figure.