Warren,

Pretty much the same story here for one of the MB dealers I've used in the Cleveland area.

Besides the 2 MBs, I have a RX300. The Lexus dealer still treats me like gold, even though the car is a 2000 and I don't have routing service done there. However, I had a few instances of very lengthy times to receive parts (2-3 months) for bolts that secure the rear door struts to the body. Also general confusion about the parts order. In case you're wondering, these simple bolts and brackets were severely oxidizing. Unfortunately, the replacement parts seem to be doing the same thing.

Lexus does have their dealership customer service act together. They're the best. My MB dealership is getting a little better, but they're a a long way from Lexus. My prior experience with Toyota and Honda dealerships were also excellent.

When you call for service at my MB dealership, you rarely can speak with anyone. All you get is voice mail asking you to leave a message. For a service department this is totally unacceptable. If you leave a message you may get a return phone call 1-2 days later. If you return to the operator and insist on speaking with a service person, you may actually reach someone. However, most of the time you'll still get put back in voice mail. I spoke with three other customers one day while waiting for their cars and they were very frustrated by the service department. There were no happy customers waiting for their cars. Their attempt to book a service appointment was worse than mine.

Anyway, that along with dealership service prices is why I only use the dealership for warranty work.

__________________
Dave

1998 E320
2001 SLK320
2000 Lexus RX300

If you guys are having a bad experience at your dealership then report it to MBUSA. I went to Ewing a couple of times since it is close to my house in Plano, and their service and parts department is laughable in comparison to Park Place. I find myself driving 26 miles just to see a smile when I pay for high margin services and parts. If you have a light bulb burn out, you just drive up and they replace it. I tried this at Ewing and they looked at me like I was from Mars. Most MB dealerships are connected to other cars, the ones connected with other fine autos are usually the best, but the ones that are connected with Pontiac and such usually mimic the same quality of service. (not that Pontiac is bad, just different level)
A MB car requires a lot of attention and part of the price is the service. :p
Brian

I too used to Park Place Mercedes when I lived in Dallas.
I have nothing but good things to say about them.Very professional...and if they made a mistake they were very prompt in correcting their action..and that came with a personal apology from the service manager.


With that being the standard...
I guess that is why I have been very disappointed with the service at the dealers in my area.....one of them has been around forever and charges prices like they are still the only game in town...and the other(who I think is only about 10 years old and the largest dealer in the state) has made some mistakes and I have gotten upset with them and vented my frustration..sometimes I have gotten resolution..sometimes I have not.
Also becuse the volume of MB's is not big in this area...it is VERY hard to find someone who in an indy shop that can work on a 140 body car....where as in Dallas you had 15-20 choices for independent shops.

but you know I also own a BMW and I assure you one of the dealers here is no better (probably worse actually)


Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Warren,
I have a 92 300sd too! mine is black with Saddle and has 164k on it. I love that car! get great mileage! Forntunatly I have not spent what you have in repairs!
Brian

About $19,000 of my $20,000 in repairs was paid for by the warranty company...thank goodness

Otherwise I don't the car would have been worth keeping.



Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Here in Portland the MB dealer owns two MB lots, as well as one BMW and one Land Rover dealership. I would consider them high-end -- they are the oldest surviving MB dealer in the country.

Service, which I haven't bothered to patronize for the past 4 years, is so-so. Nothing even remotely resembling a Lexus dealer, though. You even have to pay at their in-house espresso/coffee cart.

Several years ago they stopped giving MB loaner cars when you brought your car in for service. Rather you get an "Enterprise" Rent-a-Car which typically is something like a Mazda or a Suzuki or something like that.

Now, in my book giving customers a new-car loaner is probably the best PR for selling new cars there is. After all, if you bring in your 10 year old 300E for its 250,000 mile service, and then they put you into a nice fresh new E320 for the day, wouldn't you want to upgrade and trade in? I'll bet a lot of people would, or the experience would at least set them on the thought track to do this.

Then I found out that this same dealer charges 10% _above_ retail price at the walk-up parts counter. So if a part invoices at $50, wholesales at $65 and retails at $100, the dealer charges $110. That's just plain greedy -- it's beyond making a profit. It's customer abuse.

And the local MBCA club publicizes a 10% discount (well, this brings you back down to MSRP) for all club members at the dealer (heck the national president of MBCA even works at this dealer!!!), and the parts department doesn't honor this. Now, I don't buy parts there, but I have seen it happen to people so I know it is true.

Yes, I'm afraid that there is a lot broken beyond just the quality and reliability of the cars. It's the entire experience. I take all of my business to the local independent shop. Nice people, competent, no BS/posturing, cheaper labor than the dealer, and they even give MB loaners (if you don't mind 123 oilburners!).

Cheers,
Gerry

Lets face it. We all have stories about good and bad qualiyy issues with MB. I think the biggest worry is Chyrsler and the fact that the Germans do not understand our culture which I think gives us a choice of buying cheap or hige grade and accepting the outcome. In a few years owners of MB stock, such as Kuwaiti (24%) ,will insist that MB get back on track. In the meantime, I would not let just any MB dealer service my MB. They are virtually maintenace free cars that require little attention (other that oil/filter changes) and dealers can spoil a good car if you think your's needs care. My C280 has never been to a dealer, and runs like new after 200K miles. Go figure.

Check the placings for current/recent Mercedes models
in the lastest BBC TV "Top Gear" ownership survey in the UK - www.bbc.co.uk/topgear check Car Survey on left panel and make sure to look well
down the list!

Mike.

__________________
http://img4.photobucket.com/albums/0...nd_sig_pic.jpg

1990 Euro 190e 2.0l Petrol Now Sold Maybe a w116 280se next

It comes as no surprise. Worse yet, the latest Autonews also shows the same drop in MB value from first place ranking in residual value couple of years ago to out of top ten ranking, which is again due mostly to the quality and reliability issues. In the mean time, analysts predict that the situation will not get any better in a few years to come largely due to expanding product line, lack of quality control system, and increasing production output worldwide. I am very sad to see how this has turned out.

The end of the greatest automaker ever? I hate it too. It is bad when the folks on the parts counter tell you that when the new ones come in with all their electronic "gadgetry" problems that no one knows how to fix them and tell you NOT to own a late model out of warrenty.

What MB needs to do is sell an E class turbo diesel model with manual tranny, manual sunroof, manual windows and a/c and keep the electronic engine/tranny controls (what happened to vacuum control?) to a minimum. Build it to continue to be driveable/reliable in 25 years and sell it for between $30 and $40k. Oh yea, make sure it is rebuildable.

__________________
Jim

I agree in part with the last post (by zero4588), but the quality issues aren't the only reason that residuals are down.

Part of it is the "lease" nature of how people are buying cars nowadays. Nobody is buying cars anymore -- they are leasing them for a year, two...maybe 4.

Some people are telling me that well over 50%, and often 66%+ of "new" MBs are going out the door on leases, not being purchased outright. One only has to look at the weekly or monthly MB dealer auctions, to see the reality of things. At these auctions you see many many MBs that come back into the dealers off of leases. Decent condition, but increasingly you are seeing cars that are being returned from leases EARLY, after a year or two.

This is where the quality issues come in. Either people are trading in their leases for newer MBs (which, given the longer life cycles of MBs isn't as much the case as with other marques that change bodies more frequently), or they are dissatisfied with the cars because of the quality issues, and are trading them in, so that they can get into another type of car such as a BMW or Lexus, etc. etc.

3-4 years ago, one would only see a handful of "early lease returns" at the auctions. Today, these very current cars are comprising 40 and 50% of the cars.

The fact is, that the dealers are taking a bath on them, because of the depreciation. Not only that, but every marque is getting tons of lease returns, glutting the market with really nice, lightly-used (<30K miles) cars. So naturally the residuals have to go down in order to move the cars.

The MB dealers cherry-pick the cream of the crop for their own StarMark programs and put the others up at the MB dealer auctions, so the cars go somewhere else. The worst ones wholesale out to the indy lots wherever.

Yes, it's a buyer's market. You can score good deals on year or two-year old C- or E-class with very few miles.

The thing is that it's a total Catch-22 market. MBUSA can brag every quarter about blowout sales and great business success, but what they don't brag about is the underside of this -- a huge glut of returned lease vehicles with check-engine lights going, niggling quality problems that is keeping them in the shop once every 5,000 miles, warranty claims exploding to levels never before seen, and ever-lowering residuals.

At some point, this whole thing is going to come to a head or implode, at the corporate level. MB is going to be forced to:

a) ditch Chrysler like a hot rock -- nice experiment, but didn't work out. But at least they had the balls to try. Oh yeah, Schrempp will take the fall for this one, he'll be gone.

b) slim down number of product lines to a more reasonable level - abandon the mission to conquer the world and focus on producing a non mass-market number of highest-quality cars

c) Raise prices to support the engineering and quality-control requirements that the brand needs to grow in value and prestige (again) and thus erase the last 10-12 years of brand erosion among those "in the know"

d) Refocus engineering resources on product quality and customer relations

Cheers,
Gerry

gerryvz- I totally agree with you that majority of people lease their cars today and switch to another car as soon as the lease ends. And that's where Mercedes comes in with this idea of producing a four-year-lifecycle automobile since it assumes that this is what everyone wants. While they are increasing their production output each year and enjoying their sales success, thier quality and reliability is compromised as well as the value of their produt line depreciated rapidly.

Who is kidding who? I have a 97 C280 Sport with over 200K miles on it and I have never had an occasion or ever wanted the dealer to service the car in any way. Consequently, I have NEVER had a problem with this 'maintenace" free ride. So whats up? I put new tires, battery and change the oil/filter with Castrol 5W/50 every 5K miles and the car runs like new. My only question is when will it ware out so I can justify buying another new one? Oh, BTW, I would NEVER buy a used car. Never have and never will. I believe people get rid of "lemons" thus all the wierd problems on this forum. What say you folks?

I always buy used cars, let someone else suffer the ravages of depreciation.

w126: I always sell my current "used" car when I have big problems with it.