Many of the Mercs sold in Europe are not "loaded to the brim" with useless features like we have in the US. So, naturally, there's less to go wrong.

In the US, the consumer wants a car to be super reliable until 100K, then get rid of it. The tech-goodies have to last at least as long, and if not, the car is a piece of junk.

The engine doesn't matter, the craftsmanship doesn't matter, but the technological magnificence is of the utmost importance.

That being said, even Europeans don't think MB is what it used to be anymore. At least from what I've read on the Internet.

Another thing that bugs me. Horsepower wars. In the United States, I have only seen speed limits posted up to 70 mph maximum. Most of us do not live in desolate, non-speed-restricted areas, but rather well populated suburbs. The only place to excercise an E55 AMG Kompressor, is on the TRACK. Unless you have a death wish.

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1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

Many of the "useless" features are quite useful if you ask me....
Traction control,mutiple airbags...a good AC and stereo system
My question is ..on some vehicles the "useless" features work well past 100K miles.....so is there a durability issue with other cars?


Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbus Ohio

You have a very good point. My self-denialing defense is that all these useless features Mercedes employs in our cars are by far the most advanced and sophisticated technology compared to the Japanese brands. Even though the tightness of my steering wheel can not be programed to various levels like Lexus one, even though the keyless entry and ignition feature is included in one premium package in some Japanese brands, even though Japanese luxury cars have more sensors in thier cars that can better pinpoint the problem in a car, if one ever arises, and even though these useless features have been consistently reliable in Japanese cars, I would say to myself I wish I shouldn't have opted so many options to up my Mercedes. All I wish is that if Mercedes ever gets back to the simplicity of a 95 Civic, then it'll be fine.

I want a blend of old and new MB. Traction control? Make it available for those that want it, maybe at little or no cost, but I don't want it. Traction cannot be "created" by an electronic device. It's a function of tires and road surface. I searched the archives and found post after post concerning the throttle actuator and problems with it. The primary reason MB uses that monstrously expensive little device is for ASR/ESP.

COMAND? I just don't get it at all unless the Nav is used. The screen seems useless compared to "old fashioned" controls. In every loaner I've had with it, it was far from intuitive.

What do I want? I want those bullet proof MB engines that outlast the car itself. I want autoboxes that outlast everyone else's. I can't live without good AC, and I like climate control, but the ACC system either has to be reliable, or give me old fashioned manual HVAC controls.

Offer all the gizmos. Just don't MAKE ME buy them.

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John Shellenberg
1998 C230 "Black Betty" 240K

http://img31.exs.cx/img31/4050/tophat6.gif

I didn't say ALL features, I said useless features, meaning features that aren't really necessary.

Voice recognition is a pain in the (well, you know).

Why the heck would anybody need 10 small fans inside their seats to cool their hides off?

Airmatic stinks at reliability. It is about as reliable as the old 300SEL 6.3 air pocket suspension.

The Mercedes COMAND operating instructions are over 700 pages in length.

Come on, guys. Do you really think this is all necessary? Its really a race between manufacturers to see who can come out with something new first.

As far as ESP, I think its a great feature and I have confidence that the traction control will last for a long time. I have it, after all, in my E420. ESP is certainly not "useless".

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1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

I for one agree with the ESP feature...my car does not have it...but I have drivien many that do.And living in an area that snows I feel safer with the extra airbags and stability features.Heck I almost look at the cars that have 4-matic and sometimes wonder if that is something I need to investigate.My car has traction control and it comes into play many times in winder driving.
Now as far as all the command ,airmatic,and seats with fans...those are great as long as they work.
But I think the germans have a hard time making realible "toys" in their cars.
I have recently test driven a couple of 99-00 Audi A'8s...remarkable driving cars,loaded with features.I am AMAZED at how low the price is on a 3-4 year old one...but then I hear that the car is notoriously unreliable and that the dealers are terrible...then it all makes sense.
Ofcouse I look at how the used 140's have sank in price and I think about that also and wonder

Warren
1992 300SD 169K
Columbnus Ohio

Unfortunately the old MB quality that everyone desires can only be found from MB in the form of a Maybach ($305K). I see C and M classes all over Houston auto shops getting the usual mechanical problems corrected. Some of the posters are right in saying that greed/cost effectiveness is a factor in MB quality issues in keeping up the fight in the Car Wars with the Japanese.

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'94 SL500 Tourmaline Green, 120K miles as of February 27, 2005.

http://home.earthlink.net/~boudreaux...ictures/17.jpg
Updated photo September 2004

if that is the case...why are the Japanese cars reliable?


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

My '84 300SD has far fewer features than my '02 Golf TDI. There are no computers, cupholders, stability controls, ABS, SRS, or any other acronyms on this car and that's the way I like it. I love the Teutonic, overly-engineered simplicity of old German automobiles that were built to last. I'd rather have a no BS 400,000 mile car than one that goes back to the dealer in the first six months because the tire inflation sensor is on the fritz. Mercedes should stick to what they know and go back to the days of simple quality rather than try to compete with the Japanese gadget mobiles.

or hire someone from the Japanese camp to make the gadgets reliable..

seriously though I can't imagine having a car without some of the safety features(airbags,ABS and traction control).


Warren
1992 300SD 177K
Columbus Ohio

It is my opinion that the Germans never had competition in this level of craftsmanship BEFORE because to make the best was simply a fact of the Teutonic culture. They made top-notch cars and people bought them without question because of their reputation. And not to be a ethnic slur, but the Asians are know to be copycats and improve anything mechanical. Then the Japanese decided to get into the super-luxury market and found a way in the late 80's/early 90's (Acura, Infiniti, Lexus). Japanese cars were known to be reliable and efficient cars in the past; but now with this untapped market they simply went all-out. Of course with any new start-up there are a few problems, they were addressed and they forged onwards. Now coupled with the reliable/efficient factor on their side and innovative design, American took notice. For instance, the design and profile of the Lexus LS400 looks very similar to the S-Class but at a savings of about 15-20%. Also think about why do Japanese make V-8's now? These were almost unheard of 15 years ago.

I've also noticed that American engineers never seem to keep up with great engineering. Somehow they always keep going retro as a way to keep Americans interested in their cars (PT Cruiser, '05 Mustang, Prowler, Chevy SSR, etc.) And of course lest we forget the horrible designs (Aztec, Taurus, Sable) also. It is as if we can't play "catch-up" we'll go back to what we know best.

I believe that design, engineering and cost are paramount factors in Japanese cars and we have been given beautiful examples of such ('04 RX-7, SC 430, M45, FX45, etc.) In a sense, they beat everybody at their own game in a matter of time in 40+ years!

This is just my observation on the whole matter because I love cars and the effect they have on people and the cultures/fads they produce. If I had my choice of cars, I would love to either have a '76 Eldorado convertible or a '64-'66 Lincoln Continental. I love the rolling barge look.

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'94 SL500 Tourmaline Green, 120K miles as of February 27, 2005.

http://home.earthlink.net/~boudreaux...ictures/17.jpg
Updated photo September 2004

japanese cars are reliable because their quality control and workmanship in their factories are far superior at this point compared to the german automobile industry.
I have yet to hear of lexus recalls in their first year of a new model where as we've seen numerous recalls on the 7 series and the x5 in their first years when the came out. same goes for the 2000 s class MB's as well.
mercedes and bmw's in the 80's used to be the best back then becuse there wasn't any competition and 'the best' is a relative measure.

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.

One reason you don't see a lot of recalls on Lexus is because they practise a type of silent recall. The Lexus division keeps tabs on all warranty work performed by the dealers. When they start seeing a systematic problem, they immediately alert all dealers to check for the problem when certain cars come into their shop, and fix the problem without having the owner know anything was done. Good service - yes, but more importantly it keeps documented problems away from the press or a government-initiated recall, and leaves the model with high marks.

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95 E320 Cabriolet, 169K

If Lexus does practice this form of "silent recall", I would not have a problem with that at all. Why? Because if they make the effort to take care of the problem then everybody wins: happy customer and happy track record.

When I used to have my '98 Volvo Cross Country, it was a nice car until, TA... TA... TAAAAAAAAAHH... problems. One defect it had was the front tires would get chewed up because of a frame problem. That car went through 4 sets of tires within 50K miles!! Of course the service guy would never confirm it but according to Brickboard forum, this was a continuous problem. Another problem was the oil return line seal to the turbo: leaked after 25K miles. This problem also happened on my 2001 XC at 28K miles.

If the dealership had kept the car longer for the other small things when I brought my Volvo for repairs, I would be none the wiser. Then I would have had a happy experience and not been wary when leasing another one.

Lessons learned.

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'94 SL500 Tourmaline Green, 120K miles as of February 27, 2005.

http://home.earthlink.net/~boudreaux...ictures/17.jpg
Updated photo September 2004

All I know is, that I don't trust my older benz on a route longer than 50 miles or anything outside my state. reason is, i know well from the posts here and experience that the benz will give up any time and would have to be towed back to the mechanic. therefore as a rule of thumb i drive it only on the local routes. I don't even let anyone else in my family drive it. reason, i dont want anyone else stuck on the side of the road even on a local route. so whether or not the mercedes is built like a tank to last, that tank is no good for me when i can't drive the tank on long routes without having to worry every second about it 'staying' on the road.
as an example, read the most recent post by haasman where his w124 has left his wife stranded. and i can tell for sure that his car is one example where he's maintained it well beyond what the manufacture would call for in terms of regular maintenance.

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Whether you think you can or cannot, Either way you're right!. by Henry Ford.