Just out of curiosity, does anyone have a 2003 E-Class and if so, what types of specific quality problems have you noticed thus far? I visited the Sindelfingen plant near Stuttgart, Germany last year to tour the factory. What I noticed was a surprising amount of hand assembly of the cars as they progressed down the assembly line. Of course, there was also a great deal of automotive robotics to assemble major components. Many of the components people do not normally see were plastic (the gas tanks for example, on the C class). I've always heard not to buy the first year model of any particular car because of all the tweaks that need to occur as real-world driving tests the reliability of any given model vs. the white-coat engineering of the vehicle prior to production. I wondered how this has affected the new E class? As for evidence of poor quality , I agree. For one, I hate the new E-class plastic covers on the rear of the headrests. Even Audi's are fully padded leather both front and back!

I would really like to know where you are getting thse low cost parts!!

My personal car a 1992 300SD has had over $20,000 of repairs(mostly warranty thank god) in the 4.5 years I have owened it.
Over 10 year old mercedes don't have problems huh?...ask some one about evap cores in a 140,$2800 a pop...and my car has been done twice...and then ask about the 3.5 liter diesel engine
can you say engine replacement at 90K to the tune of $14,000

and then the other issues...closing assist pumps,AC control unit switches,electric tilt steering,bose amp,crappy Becker CD changers to the tune of about 4,000 to fix those issues
BUT does the 140 have all that makes an MB an MB...YES...built like a tank and solid.....but ask anyone that has owned one for 4-5 years what the maintenance is like

and how much was the maintenace on the Lexus LS 400 at 100K?
I bet I have any Lexus LS400 owner beat in repair costs at 100K!!

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

I have read every message in this thread and must admit that most have valid points. But, I don't concur that the Japanese competition per se was the downfall of MB quality. It may have been a factor....and a factor as well in what I believe is the primary downfall of MB: The acquisition of Chrysler. That "merger" occured in '97....coincidently when quality control problems started accelerating. In reality, the old-quality of MB helped the quality of Chrysler products, while the union-mentality of Chrysler dragged down the quality of MB. Mixing equal parts white and black always produces gray. Personally I would never own a post-merger MB, and particularly an M-class which are built by union workers in Alabama. ALWAYS look at the VIN and note the very first letter/number: A 'W' indicateds it was made in Germany, a '1' indicates it was made in the US. The American unions are very much to blame for the degredation of the MB reputation, and sadly enough, the executives don't really care because all that mattters now is the bottom line. I own a '92 500SEL which was once described as a "built as a no-holds barred, expense-be-damned...." car, and sadly, one of MB last great vehicles. My old '86 300E is a car that I do believe could last forever if maintained properly, and my '96 C220 is the last good model before the unions took over MB. Unfortunately, I think the reputation of our beloved manufacturer is on a death spiral unless someone in high management sees the errors of its ways and gets back to its roots of high quality at any price.

I have nothing really new to add, but I feel a certain need to post something in order to keep this subject thread "up there" so that others will see it. I can't be the only one out there who feels that this is an important subject.

__________________
1996 SL320 97K miles
1996 C220 130k miles
1992 500SEL 170k miles <---sold
1986 300E 216k miles <---sold

Plink...I have a few questions...how long have you owned that car?...how "reliable" has it been?.
any evap core issues,closing assit pump,bose amp,becker CD changer,window regulator,instrument cluster shorting out,or steering shimmy issues?

I question the no holds barred,expense -be-damned factor when the car spends half the time at the MB dealer

maybe after paying 70-90K for a car that was in the shop constantly people got tired and looked for other alternatives.
Ask almost anyone that bought one of those "expense be damned" cars in the first 3 years of production and find out how many inches thick the warranty repair invoices were and how many times the dealer could not figure out the problems....
and after all that you wonder why things have changed?

or you can actually speak with many of the first owners of the new 220 (S430,S500)chasis
I have seen may of the first owners in at the dealer for warranty work for that airmatic suspension and other electrical maladies.
Those are fixed under warranty for now...but what happens after that...My guess is that the questionable reliability and the huge expense of repairs will have a negative impact on the resale...which you might already see in the marketplace

Warren
1992 300SD 168K
Columbus Ohio

Funny, that sounds like a quote from a while ago about the Mercedes 450SEL 6.9. If I could just find the link,...

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

Ah, here we are..


Click Here

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1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

My 380 has been really reliable since I replaced the water pump (about 3 weeks after I bought it). I have had it about 13 months and have only done routine maintenance on it. Great car.

A few things about it:
1. Those damned w126 rear windsheilds.
2. Those damned w126 Climate Control Units.
3. It needs an idle control valve to run completely tip top. $300 for a part the size of a roll of quarters.
4. Rear seat controls dont work. Probably due to non-use.
5. Wood around shifter. Cracked like no tomorrow.
6. Leather needs refinishing.
7. Cigar lighter doesnt like to hold any American 12v appliance cord.
8. Expensive mufflers (but I deserve it for going down a dirt road loaded down heavy. )
9. Low friggin ground clearance for the under-parts.

Most of these are non-issues, but still annoying. However, they dont outweigh the great benifits of this 20-yr old car.

__________________
http://comp.uark.edu/~dmgill/signature.jpg

I don't think the ML plant in Alabama is a union plant. I think that's why all of the foreign manufacturers are interested in locating in the southern U.S. - not usually a union environment.

It's not union, although the UAW would love to change that!!

Those who adapt to change survive.
Who would have ever thought that Mercedes would make an SUV? The instrumentation would go digital? that we would have cup-holders? The changes that our beloved car manufacturer is making is only to allow it to remain competitive and stay in business, without them we would not be able to buy our parts for our older quality cars. I asked a dealer about the new S when I had my 140 in for service, Why does it look so cheap, even the windshield wipers are plastic? he responded that every change was the result of consumer feedback. I then replied, are you asking Mercedes owners or just any consumer?
Mercedes quality has degraded, but Chrysler's quality has improved. Chrysler has products now with MB components (crossfire) and there is a new MB product that resembles a Pacifica to launch soon. Cross-components, cross development, (Cross Fire) creates similiar products. MB is not the Same, it is now Daimler Chrysler, it will survive, but the old school MB owners don't want plastic and femine designs. Myself I prefer the masculine, powerful, secure appearance and dependability of the 129's and the 140's, the new S and SL are pretty to look at, but I still don't want one. (yet). Stay competitive, stay in business. Peace
Regards,
Brian

It is only fair to compare something new out of a box to see if it's made with the same quality or not.

It's not fair to compare something that had subjected to all kind of abuses, from driving habits, road conditions, weather, dirts, and not to mention the normal wears and tears of any moving parts after 10 years.

Several comments.
Thanks DslBnz for that link to the article on the 6.9 (I never knew there was a 6.9...but I'm reletively new as a MB fan, 3 yrs). But that was what I was referring to and the time when MB produced cars not to necessarily be "politically correct" in the automotive sense of the term, but just to produce the best damn cars on the road.
To Turnne1: If I had paid $96,000 11 years ago for this 500SEL I would agree with your assessment 100%. But, when you can acquire one of these fine automobiles for less than $12,000 and have virtually no problems then it's a good deal considering the unsurpassed luxury and safety. I will admit that the car suffers from lousy Becker audio componants (my cd changer is totally in-op), but that is more a problem of Becker than MB...actually it IS a MB problem as they have used Becker for way too long and don't see the error of their ways.
Perhaps I was wrong about the M-class factory in Alabama. I would have sworn that was an old Chrysler plant. Whatever the case, the M-class has an absolutly horrible repair record and I can't imagine it is simply coincidence.
And finally in response to dtkw....you are absolutely correct. We won't know the results of this particular thread for 10-20 years from now: Will the current models being produced last that long and become legends like so many MB have in the past, or will they simply be littering junkyards like every other make out their because of more concern from bean counters than engineers.

__________________
1996 SL320 97K miles
1996 C220 130k miles
1992 500SEL 170k miles <---sold
1986 300E 216k miles <---sold

Alright, Here is my two cents. If I said that MB was not haveing quality issues I would have to be dragged into court for gross misrepresentation. This past year has been a giant pain in the @#*. With that said, Consumers demand more and more features every year. TV, Parktronics, phones, GPS, Internet service (why) and heated seats to keep there little butts warm just to name a couple. All this while trying to improve braking streering and other safety systems. You show me a Lexus that will keep your brake rotors dry in the rain and move your seat in an upright poition before a collision to keep you safe. You won't find it because under the wood trim in a Luxus is nothing. You can put 50 airbags in a car and if the engine ends up in your lap during an accident it won't make a bit of difference. I have one customer that has wiped out 3 cars this year and she keeps coming back because she can keep coming back thanks to her Benzs. Every few years companies go through growing pains and ours is no different. The difference is that your new eclass is still going to save your life in a head on collision even if your CD changer is not working.

The Becker Silverstone CD changer was made by Sony. The problem with these changers appears to have been the more complicated cassettes supplied by Mercedes. I've had a reconditioned unit for a few years and use simple Sony cassettes in it that do not bind/jam. I've never had the slightest problem.

I also feel that it's not fair to judge the quality of a vehicle that's been used and abused by someone else before you get it.

As an example, I have two neighbors who each own a Lexus. One of them does his own maintenance and gives his cars tender loving care. The other one has his car serviced at Walmart, uses cheap high sulfur fuel and has it washed in brush type car washes.