If I wanted to dump some used motor oil in my fuel tank,,,,,,,,, - Page 4 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

eatont9999 · #46 03-23-2013, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidlee

How long have you been running that mix in you car?

I have been running small amounts since I bought the car a year ago but in the last 5 months, I have started running more WMO and high concentrations of it. I know it is not a long period of time but like I said, it can save you a lot of money and if ever I had a problem with the IP or injectors, they can be replaced for a nominal amount of cash in comparison.

People lament over the engine consuming oil as fuel but I ask you to take a look at the intake of your turbo. Looks kinda like used engine oil in it, right? Well, even though the crank case oil vapors are filtered through the oil separator, oil vapor still gets into the engine and burnt as fuel. Burning the oil through the intake is the worst possible way to efficiently burn the oil because it is introduced into the cylinder at improper timing and not atomized like the fuel introduced through the injection system. Coking on the intake valves and exhaust valves can occur when the fuel is not burned properly.

I have done extensive research on burning WMO in Diesel engines and I believe that the only unknown is the effect on the IP. I have heard arguments that claim the carbon deposits wear out the IP and on the flip-side, I have heard arguments that the carbon is a lubricating agent same as the graphite lube in locks, etc. I take an economic point of view and I realize that if I save thousands of dollars and have to replace an engine for $250 on my time, I win in the end.

Diesel911 · #47 03-26-2013, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatont9999

I have been running small amounts since I bought the car a year ago but in the last 5 months, I have started running more WMO and high concentrations of it. I know it is not a long period of time but like I said, it can save you a lot of money and if ever I had a problem with the IP or injectors, they can be replaced for a nominal amount of cash in comparison.

People lament over the engine consuming oil as fuel but I ask you to take a look at the intake of your turbo. Looks kinda like used engine oil in it, right? Well, even though the crank case oil vapors are filtered through the oil separator, oil vapor still gets into the engine and burnt as fuel. Burning the oil through the intake is the worst possible way to efficiently burn the oil because it is introduced into the cylinder at improper timing and not atomized like the fuel introduced through the injection system. Coking on the intake valves and exhaust valves can occur when the fuel is not burned properly.

I have done extensive research on burning WMO in Diesel engines and I believe that the only unknown is the effect on the IP. I have heard arguments that claim the carbon deposits wear out the IP and on the flip-side, I have heard arguments that the carbon is a lubricating agent same as the graphite lube in locks, etc. I take an economic point of view and I realize that if I save thousands of dollars and have to replace an engine for $250 on my time, I win in the end.

Bending science a little?
Do you really believe that Oil Vapor carries any particles that need to be Filtered?
The Vaporized Oil particles burn more easily because they are smaller than the Atomized Fuel that comes out of the Fuel Injector and Engine Oil has a Higher Cetane rate then Diesel Fuel so it ignites easier once it starts.

In order for the Oil Vapor to preignite like let us say Starting Fluid it has to be volotile; and it is only slighly more volotile than Diesel Fuel; and there also has to be enough Oil Vapor to stustain Combustion. Meaning you need a large Volume of Oil Vapor.

So it would take a whole lot of Oil Vapor at Engine cranking speeds for it to ignite. And, at cranking speeds there is no Blow-by and thus no Oil Vaopr to ignite.

The issue with buring WVO is that there is stuff in it like detergent and acids that no one should be attempting to burn in an Engine.

If you are simply out to save money and not worry about the longivity of the Engine and Fuel System then of course none of the above matters.

greazzer · #48 03-26-2013, 03:17 PM

The issue with buring WVO is that there is stuff in it like detergent and acids that no one should be attempting to burn in an Engine.

What is the Ph level of diesel: 5.6 at 25 C.

What is the Ph level of cooking oil: ?

Answer: Actually, you can't measure the pH of vegetable oil because it doesn't have one! pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration in an aqueous solution (water). Because there is no water in vegetable oil, there is no pH value. However, if you did some fancy chemistry, it's much closer to 7, that being neutral. It's really not acidic.

So, I don't see how it is more acidic or it contains "acids". What detergents also ?

ROLLGUY · #49 03-26-2013, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greazzer

The issue with buring WVO is that there is stuff in it like detergent and acids that no one should be attempting to burn in an Engine.

What is the Ph level of diesel: 5.6 at 25 C.

What is the Ph level of cooking oil: ?

Answer: Actually, you can't measure the pH of vegetable oil because it doesn't have one! pH is a measure of the hydrogen ion concentration in an aqueous solution (water). Because there is no water in vegetable oil, there is no pH value. However, if you did some fancy chemistry, it's much closer to 7, that being neutral. It's really not acidic.

So, I don't see how it is more acidic or it contains "acids". What detergents also ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

The issue with buring WVO is that there is stuff in it like detergent and acids that no one should be attempting to burn in an Engine.

I think Diesel911 meant WMO not WVO

greazzer · #50 03-26-2013, 08:26 PM

Oopps, my bad then.

eatont9999 · #51 03-27-2013, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel911

Bending science a little?
Do you really believe that Oil Vapor carries any particles that need to be Filtered?
The Vaporized Oil particles burn more easily because they are smaller than the Atomized Fuel that comes out of the Fuel Injector and Engine Oil has a Higher Cetane rate then Diesel Fuel so it ignites easier once it starts.

In order for the Oil Vapor to preignite like let us say Starting Fluid it has to be volotile; and it is only slighly more volotile than Diesel Fuel; and there also has to be enough Oil Vapor to stustain Combustion. Meaning you need a large Volume of Oil Vapor.

So it would take a whole lot of Oil Vapor at Engine cranking speeds for it to ignite. And, at cranking speeds there is no Blow-by and thus no Oil Vaopr to ignite.

The issue with buring WVO is that there is stuff in it like detergent and acids that no one should be attempting to burn in an Engine.

If you are simply out to save money and not worry about the longivity of the Engine and Fuel System then of course none of the above matters.

I'm not talking about oil vapor being ignited during startup. I'm talking about oil vapor being present in the cylinder beginning on the intake stroke The oil coats the cylinder, walls and valves before ignition occurs. Oil in contact with a surface cannot burn well due to lack of oxygen exposure and the direct contact with a colder surface during ignition. This, I believe, leads to added coking and or carbon deposits.

My original point is that the engine has consumed by means of intake air supply, crankcase oil, and burnt it as fuel since the engine was manufactured. All doing so by design. Not to mention carbon deposit-rich exhaust vapors.

Secondly, the vaporized oil contains the exact same chemicals and small particulate that is in the oil in your crank case. The oil is vaporized, not fractured or distilled. Take a look at what is in your PCV hose and if you see pitch black oil residue, you are looking at the same stuff that is in the crankcase. Carbon deposits, chemicals, etc. I do not believe the vapor is any different than the oil itself and it is large enough to carry through the carbon deposits, etc that you are concerned about.

Ghoti · #52 03-30-2013, 02:58 PM

Kastoo's Guide to Mercedes Diesel Motors says, "Do it".

funola · #53 03-31-2013, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eatont9999

I'm not talking about oil vapor being ignited during startup. I'm talking about oil vapor being present in the cylinder beginning on the intake stroke The oil coats the cylinder, walls and valves before ignition occurs. Oil in contact with a surface cannot burn well due to lack of oxygen exposure and the direct contact with a colder surface during ignition. This, I believe, leads to added coking and or carbon deposits.

My original point is that the engine has consumed by means of intake air supply, crankcase oil, and burnt it as fuel since the engine was manufactured. All doing so by design. Not to mention carbon deposit-rich exhaust vapors.

Secondly, the vaporized oil contains the exact same chemicals and small particulate that is in the oil in your crank case. The oil is vaporized, not fractured or distilled. Take a look at what is in your PCV hose and if you see pitch black oil residue, you are looking at the same stuff that is in the crankcase. Carbon deposits, chemicals, etc. I do not believe the vapor is any different than the oil itself and it is large enough to carry through the carbon deposits, etc that you are concerned about.

I agree engine oil vapor is not much different than engine oil, composition wise. The difference is the vapor goes directly into the combustion chamber and not through your injection pump/ injectors.

whunter · #54 03-31-2013, 05:56 PM

The correct term is unregulated fuel = fuel not entering the combustion chamber through the injector.

This topic is thoroughly covered in the following thread.

Run away diesel, why does it happen?
Run away diesel, why does it happen? - PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum

The combustion chamber is very forgiving of particulate, many orders of magnitude beyond the injection pump or injectors.

.

wildhorsemfg · #55 05-22-2013, 01:02 AM

i just started doing this ... in a 617 in a mazda pickup .
im pumping the wmo through a
screen > gearpump > 5 micron fiber filter > 10 micron absolute filter / water seperator
and them mixing about 1 to 6 with diesel .

i notice more smoke when its cold .. but not a lot more .