Shields up!

I almost mentioned this in my reply to Rick Jordon's poll on oil brands, but he asked us to leave out the opinions. So, here I am on a new topic.

Those of you using Mobil 1 oil in your Diesel engines, please check the ratings. That oil is not rated for Diesel engines and Mobil does not recommend it. This was verified when I called the Mobil consumer information line last year.

Mobil makes two oils that are recommended for our Diesels - Delvac and Delvac 1. The regular Delvac is ordinary dino oil and would be comparable to Chevron Delo or Shell Rotella. The Delvac 1 is a full synthetic that I would use if I could find it. In some parts of the country it is very rare and very expensive at $6 to $8 per quart.

If you're having someone else, such as an MB dealer, do your oil changes, you might want to check on what they're putting in your engine. Just two weeks ago, my dealer put in Castrol GTX 10W-40 in my engine, and that oil is not Diesel rated. I've also heard of several other dealers putting the wrong oil in Diesel engines. So don't just assume that they know what they're doing!

__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

I have forgetten the exact specifics, but for an oil to have a certain S rating, by definition it has an equivelant C rating, even though it is not marked that way on the container. For example (again, I am going off dim recollection so this may not be exactly correct) for example, say an oil had an SF rating a few years ago. The mil-spec that is equivelant to SF also has a spec which is equivelant to say, CC or CD. Therefore by extension, there is virtualy no motor oil (except for non-detergent of course) which you can purchase in North America which is unsuitable for use in light duty diesel engines. Please note that I am not suggesting that you run some generic 10w40 in your brand new diesel, I am just stating that any oil rated higher than about SF or so is suitable for light duty diesel applications, even though it may not necessarily be the best choice for such applications. This info can be found in an old Frank King article in MBCA STAR Magazine from about the mid to late 80's if somebody would want to take the time to locate it.

__________________
Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

Rick Miley wrote:

"Those of you using Mobil 1 oil in your Diesel engines, please check the ratings. That oil is not rated for Diesel engines and Mobil does not recommend it."

Rick-That is not true. I have been using Mobil 1 for years in my engines. It is, in fact, rated for diesel applications - CF. You can view the data sheet at the following link:

http://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/MobilPDS.nsf/26b7c4b33367a4a086256665004e4266/9337c5cedcf5e32e852567b60056db77?OpenDocument

I use Mobil 1 as opposed to Delvac 1 because my engine (OM603.96) is indirect injection, while yours is direct. With indirect injected engines, soot accumulation and oil contamination will develop at ~5000 miles REGARLESS of oil type. Thus, it is a simple matter of cost.

__________________
Chris

'04 ML500 - 53k, Inspiration Edition, Desert Silver
'11 Audi A4 Avant - Brilliant Black
'87 300SDL sold
'99 C280 Sport sold
'85 190E 2.3 sold

A couple of points. I own a '98 E300 turbodiesel, the
same as Rick (or is his a '99, can't remember).

The owners manual/maintenance manual states that an
oil meeting CG-4 is required by this engine. Mobil 1
*does not* carry such a rating - it is CF rated, which
is two generations back in the rating system. The
assumption that a CF rated oil is sufficient for all
light duty diesel engines is incorrect - it does not
meet specifications for the OM606.96 engine, and could
therefore void the warranty.

Delvac 1 does carry the CG-4 rating, and is therefore
an appropriate choice for the OM606.96 engine. It is
available at Mobil distributors - look in the yellow
pages under "lubricants." I purchased a large supply
for about $18/gallon, so it is priced competitively
with other synthetic oils.

The OM606 is not a direct injection engine. It is the
last of the indirect injection diesels. The CDI engines
which have yet to be imported to North America are MBs
first direct injection engines for passenger cars.

Got a letter direct form MB stating unequivocally that they, after much testing, recommend Mobil 1 for 98 and newer Diesels, they also mentioned some other synthetic brands as acceptable too. They now recommend ONLY synthetic oil.

__________________
1999 E300 TurboDiesel
2007 Ford Explorer limited
1981 John Deere 650 Diesel tractor

http://www.api.org/programs_services/quality/oilchart.htm

That was a link to the American Petroleum Institute website, leading to their "oil chart".

Some of you are right, and some of you are, well, almost right.

Mercedes should revise their literature, as a CF rated oil is not designed for use in direct injection diesel engines. Mobil 1 has a CF rating. In my 1982 300SD, it would work great, but in a newer diesel with direct injection you need a CG-4 or even a CH-4 rated oil. DelVac or DelVac 1, DELO 400 or Rotella T may meet your requirements.

API says: "S category oils are suitable for gasoline engines and C category oils are suitable for diesel engines." PERIOD. there are no equivalencies.

And Castrol GTX is not rated by Castrol for use in diesel engines. Go to: http://www.castrolusa.com/default.asp

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

palangi - yep, I know that. My post was based on a phone call to Mobil when they told me specifically that Mobil 1 was not designed for Diesel engines and that I should use Delvac or Delvac 1 instead.

goldenbear - thanks for the link to the data sheet. At the time I investigated this the Tri-Synthetic formula was still new and maybe all the ratings were not in yet. Good to know that it carries a CF rating, but that's still not enough for the OM606.

jcyuhn - right on. We have the last of the prechamber Diesels. The only place in Tampa where I could find Delvac 1 wanted $125 for a case of 4 gallons. $62.50 per oil change plus the filter - ouch!

richard u - I have the same letter. However, I'm inclined to believe Mobil (see above) and Mercedes when they said the engine required oil with a CG-4 rating, which Mobil 1 doesn't have. Please notice that the letter says nothing specifically about Diesels. The booklet enclosed with the letter also recommends Valvoline and Castrol oils that do not carry a CG-4 rating. The box on the left side of the page specifically lists Diesels and gives a CF-4 or CG-4 rating. Considering the very long oil change intervals (I'm getting 12,000+ miles!) recomended by FSS, the OM606 should get the best oil you can possibly find.

Oh, and just for the record, I'm changing my fully synthetic CG-4 rated oil twice as often as recomended by FSS.


The point of all this was to make people really think about the products they're using to maintain these fine automobiles, rather than just assume that something is "good enough". I'm not trying to win a p'ing contest, just promote a healthy exchange of information. Thanks for your replies.

__________________
Rick Miley
2014 Tesla Model S
2018 Tesla Model 3
2017 Nissan LEAF
Former MB: 99 E300, 86 190E 2.3, 87 300E, 80 240D, 82 204D Euro
Chain Elongation References

As I understand it the CG4 and CH4 ratings are a result of oil compatibility with GM 6.2/6.5 liter diesels. These engines are equiped with roller lifters whose needle bearings are known to fail prematurely due to wear from soot particles. The CG4 and later CH4 ratings specifically refer to additives that control soot "clumping" and keep it in suspension within the oil. These engines require this rating on the oil and not using it is asking for faliure. Now this may or may not apply to MB diesels but it would seem that keeping the soot as controlled and inert as possible would be a benefit? Your results may vary but I would think using a diesel rated oil a bare minimum in any diesel engine. RT

Rick -

I paid about $68 per case of four gallons for Delvac 1
at a local Mobil distributor. Mobil has an 800 number
you can use to locate all the Tampa area distributors
of Delvac 1. Perhaps there are several, and one will
have reasonable pricing? Failing that, you could mail
order it much cheaper than $125/case, even though
shipping would still be a bit expensive.

- Jim

I was checking out Mobil 1 synthetic ATF last night at Pep Boys at $5.99 a quart (I didn't buy any). Any thoughts on how it compares to Redline ATF's? I've had some hard shifting problems, and my tranny is slow to shift from R to D or D to R. Right now I'm running Esso Dexron-??? ATF which was dirt cheap at $9.99 for a case of 12 quarts.

__________________
Bob Roe
Lehigh Valley PA USA
1973 Olds 88, 1972 MB 280SE, 1978 Datsun 280Z, 1971 Ford T-Bird, 1972 Olds 88, 1983 Nissan Sentra, 1985 Sentra, 1973 230.6, 1990 Acura Integra, 1991 Volvo 940GLE wagon, 1983 300SD, 1984 300SD, 1995 Subaru Legacy L wagon, 2002 Mountaineer, 1991 300TE wagon, 2008 Murano, 2007 R320CDI 4Matic 52K, some Hyundai, 2008 BMW 535xi wagon, all gone... currently
2007 Honda Odyssey Touring, 2014 E350 4matic

Rick
This was a good discussion, and I enjoyed it. Thanks for starting it. It's always interesting to see the different viewpoints, even though we don't always agree 100%. I looked at a Mobil 1 container today. It is marked SJ/CF. If I remember CF correctly, it is for light duty turbocharged diesel. Plenty good at least for the older diesels. When we are talking about the new diesels of the last few years, I think we now have 2 distinct requirements. First, we want to lubricate the engine (and suspend contaminants). Second, we want to keep the FSS system happy happy. FSS system is ahead of it's time. MB made a big mistake by not specifying synthetic oil in FSS engines from day one. The superiority of synthetic lubricants has been known for more than a decade. Big mistake to introduce FSS while allowing dino oil, especially in gasoline engines. Some of the dino oil couldn't handle the varnish. Best way to fix it was obvious, and should have been so from the beginning... use better oil.
Circumstances on my old 300D are such that I didn't feel it wise to go to full synthetic. The main factors were leaks and cost. I went to semi-synthetic about a year ago ( successful at this point ). I think I will run with that for a while longer and just see how well it does. If I hit the lotto and get a new diesel, I guarantee it will have synthetic oil right from day one, which is the same way I did my new ( in 1991 ) Toyota.
Cheers !

__________________
Palangi

2004 C240 Wagon 203.261 Baby Benz
2008 ML320 CDI Highway Cruiser
2006 Toyota Prius, Saving the Planet @ 48 mpg
2000 F-150, Destroying the Planet @ 20 mpg



TRUMP .......... WHITEHOUSE
HILLARY .........JAILHOUSE
BERNIE .......... NUTHOUSE
0BAMA .......... OUTHOUSE

Folks - Save your money and use Shell Rotella T 15W-40 oil or Delo! We all want what is best for our Mercedes but unless you live in the Sahara Desert or Alaska you just are wasting your money on synthetic. The function of oil is to lubricate and suspend trash and particles of soot. For a diesel you need the CH4 rating, or better the Cat TO2 and Cummins CES 20077 rating. These are much higher specs that CH4. Mobile 1 is only rated for passenger car diesels and would never cut it in a big rig. I have had Cat engines go 900,000 miles before teardown and very very little oil related wear with Rotella.



1995 S-350 138,000 miles

While CH-4 IS the highest current rating for diesel engine lubricating oil, it isn't necessarily the appropriate oil for the older engines. There is nothing wrong with using it, but there is also nothing wrong with using Mobil 1 with it's CF rating. In fact, there are certain advantages...

The benefits of synthetic oil aren't just better lubrication at high temperatures, and easier flow when starting at cold temperatures. There are many more, and not the least of them are: increased fuel economy, no wax or paraffin build up, better detergency, almost no formation of acids from the condensation formed during the combustion process, and better overall lubrication.

I truly believe that the Mercedes Benz passenger car diesel engine with indirect injection will work to it's optimum performance and best longevity with a combination of proper maintenance, high cetane rated fuel and additive, regular oil & filter changes, and the use of a synthetic motor oil with a rating of CF.

The chart at the API website is the best determining factor for choosing motor oil for your passenger car diesel.

http://www.api.org/programs_services/quality/oilchart.htm

Mercedes Benz passenger car diesel engines are about as related to a CAT diesel in a commercial vehicle as a Palomino is to a Zebra.

And if I were still running trucks with CAT and Big Block Cummins engines across North America like I used to, I'd be using Mobil DelVac 1 right now...

__________________

Scott Longston
Northern California Wine Country...
"Turbos whistle, grapes wine..."

I agree with you that Delvac 1 is superior to Rotella, but for the price difference, what I am saying is that, it is not worth it unless you use oil sampling and increase your change intervals. Most Mercedes owners would not do this and be changing the oil before it needs to be. But still if the price of Mobil 1 and Rotella were identical, I would choose Rotella. If the price of Delvac 1 and Rotella were equal, I would choose Delvac 1.

Hey Rick,

There is a guy named Shag that also started quite a discussion on oil for gas engines too. In that thread I made my case for Castrol, and I'm not going to do that here, but we have ignorantly used GTX and other oils in my 300D for 16yrs.
Albeit, this car has only 100K mi on it, but the thing runs great and does not use any oil between changes nor does it leak! I think the advent of cable modem and last year's purchase of a new ML causes me to spend more time on this site than I'm willing to admit, but I'm learning alot!

So...what have I learned? That Mobil 1 is not the only choice nor the best one, and that diesel rated oil is probably a good thing for my 300D. I agree with oldsouth, pure synthetic is only worth the cost if your climate is extreme or if what you're buying is some amount of piece of mind that you have the best possible (this individual is probably an audiophile too) oil product.

But most importantly, experience proves that frequent oil changes, every 3-4K miles or at least three times a year, will do more for your engines longevity, regardless of what it likes to drink, than anything we can agree to disagree on here! JMHO

__________________
Ed "Don't Benz's just feel better..."

Current wives...
2000 ML430 Skyview "The Mel"
2000 CLK430 Cab "The Cab"
85 300D Turbo "The Diesel"

Past wives...
92 300E
85 190E

"One should as a rule respect public opinion in so far as is necessary to
avoid starvation and to keep out of prison, but anything that goes beyond
this is voluntary submission to an unnecessary tyranny, and is likely to
interfere with happiness in all kinds of ways."
Bertrand Russell