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  #1  
Old 04-06-2002, 08:37 PM
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The great confusion at Mobil

Hi, all:

If you do not like to read about oils, please do not read any further as I titled it "The great confusion at Mobil."

I have been following Mobil's move on new oils very closely and I have posted to the effect (in this forum and several other MB and general auto forums) that the latest Mobil Delvac 1300 Super and, very recently, Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic SL oil has deteriorated in specs due to the use of inferior (compared to the SJ formula) base stocks. Now I have some proof.

After all other major synthetic oils came out with the SL rated oil, Mobil released its Tri-Synthetic SL rated oil in late March. After it came out, people started wondering why a sudden increase in pour point (10 degree) and stuffs like that.

As of today, Mobil has apparently changed its product strategy. It has removed the product specs of the SL rated Mobil 1 Tr-Synthetic oil from its Website (at the least the link used to work did not work anymore). And the old SJ stuffs are back on the Website.

More importantly, Mobil started a new Mobil 1 SuperSyn series of synthetic oil and the Tri-Synthetic is listed under Semi-synthetic oils now.

More interestingly, please read this post form the Edmonds Townhall Synthetic Oil discussion. I provide the link and also the text below.

http://townhall-talk2.edmunds.com/WebX?50@96.6LJbaUYZ4Sb^1@.ee9950a/3203

<<
Mobil 1 SuperSyn

Well I saw this formula again today. The 5w-30 said it was for newer engines, the 10w-30 was for older engines and the 15w-50 was for high performance engines. It was ILSAC GF-3 and API SL rated and listed as meeting European ACEA requirements but I don't remember the numbers. There was no mention of "Tri-Synthetic" anywhere. only "synthetic fluids". The person stocking the shelves believed that this was replaceing the Trisynthetic formula. I looked throug Mobil's product data sheets but found no mention of the SuperSyn formula. I did notice that the Trisynthetic formula is now listed under the Semi-Synthetic Automotive Engine Oil group. see...

https://dallnd6.dal.mobil.com/GIS/MobilPDS.nsf/Automotive?ReadForm&Start=1&Count=30&Expand=4.17

paste the 2 pieces together

Strange that it says "The Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic Series motor oils are manufactured from 100% synthetic base stocks" but is listed under semi-synthetic. Has Mobil joined the dark side of synthetics? It also lists the Trisynthetic blend as API SL rated but only ILSAC GF-2 even though I had bought some MObil1 10-w30 SL oil that stated it was GF-3. I have been a long time satisfied user of Mobil1 but I'm becoming wary. Chevron Supreme is looking better all the time. Anyone have any insights into what's going on at Mobil?????
>>

If all this is true and Mobil did not make a mistake in their information, then the Tri-Synthetic oils many of us have been buying are really (. . . filling the blank here . . .) as some of us were suspecting after Mobil lost the law suit against Castrol on the definition of "synthetic."

Bo
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2002, 10:21 PM
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I think what'sgoing on at Mobil is Exxon.
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2002, 10:28 PM
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I am going to Wal-Mart tomorrow to check it out as one of my oil friends told me that Wal-Mart has removed all the new Mobil 1 Tr-Synthetic SL oils (less than one month old) and re-stocked them with the new-new SuperSyn at a higher price of $4.77/qt.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2002, 11:18 PM
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Just went out and checked a 5qt container of Mobil 1 which was
purchased inside of two weeks ago. Still marked "Tri-Synthetic".

That said, I would not be surprised in the least to find that
ExxonMobil has been trying to adulterate the basestocks with
cheaper inferior product. A couple of gentlemen I know who have
worked in the petrochemicals and lubricants industry told me to
be watching for that, just after the merger was first announced.

I'd be interested to hear if anyone has detected a similar change
in Mobil Delvac 1, or in the Caterpillar synthetic diesel oil which is
reportedly put together using the Delvac 1 basestock plus an
even tougher additive package.

Seems like the number of customer complaint letters I've been
writing has been going up exponentially lately (symptom of a
recession in all but name -- service and quality vanish silently).

I'm happy to add Mobil to that list of complaints. I used to use
Castrol Syntec until Castrol tried its dumb gambit of using a
nonsynthetic basestock to produce an oil that they were pleased
to label as "synthetic".

Yeah, they won their court case when Mobil challenged them on
it (Mobil being at that time on the side of the angels); the judge
said they could call it synthetic if they wanted to. Sigh. Your
gooberment tax dollars at work.

I wrote to Castrol and said that regardless of what the courts or
FTC might say, in my small and closed mind, "synthetic oil" is oil
built from fully synthetic basestocks. Told 'em that it smelled of
deceptive marketing and that they could say goodbye to my
custom. Guess I may have to do something similar with Mobil.

If Shell would cut some volume discounts, I'd be happy to give
their Rotella synthetic a whirl. I'll have to write them as well.

s/b
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2002, 11:24 PM
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<<
Just went out and checked a 5qt container of Mobil 1 which was
purchased inside of two weeks ago. Still marked "Tri-Synthetic".
>>

That is their old stock, SJ rated oils.


<<
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has detected a similar change
in Mobil Delvac 1, or in the Caterpillar synthetic diesel oil which is
reportedly put together using the Delvac 1 basestock plus an
even tougher additive package.
>>

I have not seen any change on Delvac 1. But the Delvac 1300 Super has been cheapened up in base stocks. It has the smilar deteriation in pour point, etc.


<<
If Shell would cut some volume discounts, I'd be happy to give
their Rotella synthetic a whirl. I'll have to write them as well.
>>

Or the Chevron 5W-40 synthetic (CH-4 rated).
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  #6  
Old 04-07-2002, 12:26 AM
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Strategy: ExxonMobil Revs $10M SuperSyn Launch

ExxonMobil's passenger vehicle lubricants unit is launching a $10 million campaign to support its new high-tech synthetic motor oil, Mobil 1 with SuperSyn. The product ships this week.

From

http://www.adweek.com/adweek/members/editorial/brandweek_abstracts.jsp
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2002, 07:45 PM
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Hristo Tomov:

The best thing to do is to follow your owners manuals.

When my ISP comes back up (their server went down this weakened), I have a page that shows some comparisons and also what the numbers mean. It is at

http://members.net-port.com/~loub/car/oil_S.htm

All oils will be good at the operating temp of all engines. the difference is different viscosity (therefore different protection) at a high temp and different rates of evaporation.

To me, the best viscosity for MB and BMW are either 0W-40 or 5W-40 but they are not easy to find. 10W-40 is also good but only a few synthetic oils at that viscosity are available.

In Germany, the only available Mobil 1 oils are:

0W-30
0W-40
0W-40 Turbo Diesel
5W-50
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  #8  
Old 04-08-2002, 04:37 AM
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You mention the Chevron 5w-40 synthetic and the shell rotellaT Synthetic 5w-40.

These are both groupIII nonsynthetic basestock oils being marketed as full synthetic. First you badmouth castrol and are on the fencepost about mobil then talk good about two more companies who are clearly in the same boat as castrol? hrmmmmm, ok.
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  #9  
Old 04-08-2002, 10:17 AM
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Matt:

I did mention Chevron 5W-40 but not Shell Rotella 5W-40. Shell Rotella 5W-40 was mentioned by another poster.

Yes, Chevron 5W-40 uses Group III base stock but IT IS PRICED FOR THAT. At $12-14 per gallon, it is priced correctly for what it is, unlike Syntec and Tri-Synthetic.

Being a CH-4 rated oil, Chevron 5W-40 really should be compared with Castrol Syntec 5W-40 (not other Syntec viscosities) and Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 (not Tri-Synthetic). Since Castrol Syntec 5W-40 is not available outside the VW dealerships, that leaves us to compare Chevron 5W-40 with Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40. Delvac 1 carries a huge price premium over Chevron 5W-40. Delvac 1 is about $20 - 22 per gallon so that is about $8 more per gallon more than Chevron 5W-40.

In the VW TDI forum, they have posted a lot of oil analysis results. The results show the Chevron 5W-40 is a very competent oil, especially at a huge price discounts, compared with Delvac 1.

Last edited by loubapache; 04-08-2002 at 10:51 AM.
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  #10  
Old 04-08-2002, 11:41 AM
dweller
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hristo Tomov

Do you know some site with oil grades charts or pix and also some info for the grades , like to how much hot (not cold ) the different grades can go (for example 5w-30 - to what high temp is good - like is it OK for use with under 100deg.F heat (or for the CA SF Bay Area climate winter mid 40F and summer mid 90 F )?
Go to the oil-company sites and check their tech sheets. They list this information. For example:

http://www.mobil.com/mobil_productdata/
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  #11  
Old 04-08-2002, 03:06 PM
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An update.

As of today (3/8/2002), Mobil has put the Tri-Synthetic back into the "Synthetic Motor Oil" Group. They have removed the Semi-Synthetic group from the link provided earlier. Also the data link is still to the old SJ Mobil 1 (was linked to the SL for a while).

Also on the Mobil1.com site, it started a flash intro of releasing something big on 4/15/2002. That must be for the new SuperSyn.

So the great confusion continues. On day 1, Tri-Synthetic was synthetic, on day 2, it was semi-synthetic, on day 3, it is back to synthetic. Wonder what they will call it on day 4?
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  #12  
Old 04-09-2002, 04:55 AM
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Royal Purple

Quote:
Originally posted by car54
You mention the Chevron 5w-40 synthetic and the shell rotellaT Synthetic 5w-40.

These are both groupIII nonsynthetic basestock oils being marketed as full synthetic. First you badmouth castrol and are on the fencepost about mobil then talk good about two more companies who are clearly in the same boat as castrol? hrmmmmm, ok.
What about Royal Purple?
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  #13  
Old 04-09-2002, 11:13 AM
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C320

I had some indirect experience with their oils and I did look into it and talked to one of their sales persons. As a matter of fact, my local Penzzoil oil change place sells them.

It is a very good oil but their marketing or evasive definitions tuned me off.

A fellow instructor at my university (he teaches heavy equipment) ran a batch of their Multi-Vis Motor Oil (15W-40) in his Chevy diesel pickup truck for 26,000 miles with oil analysis every 5kmi. The oil was still good to use at the 25,000 mi analysis but he could not take it anymore and changed the oil. He is a Royal Purple believer and his truck has over 170,000 miles as of today. He uses it year round here in Michigan.

However, had he used Chevron Delo 400, Shell Rotella T, or Mobil Delvac, he might has been be able to go 26,000 miles as well. That is obviously an open question.

Anyway, back to Royal Purple. They have several oil lines but the main two are

Multi-Vis Motor Oils and Racing Oils.

Their racing line uses a 100% synthetic base stock. I have no doubt about that.

However, they call the Multi-Vis Motor Oils "Synthetic Motor Oils" but then said they are not 100% synthetic in their FAQ at

http://www.synerlec.com/faq.html

I quote that item:

"If your street products are not 100% synthetic, why are they priced similar to a full synthetic?

The Synerlec technology provides the best protection and performance increases available, however, it is very expensive. We have blended our street oils to exceed the performance characteristics of any other blended or "Full" synthetic. If having a full synthetic is important, we have our racing line which can be considered a "Full" synthetic."

So as you can see, their Multi-Vis Motor Oils is not 100% synthetic.

I talked to one of their sales persons based in the Detroit area. Being a sales person, he was very vague at this. I point blank asked him: "which one is more synthetic, Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic or Royal Purple Multi-Vis". He point blank answered " Royal Purple is more synthetic than Mobil 1".

That finished my interest in Royal Purple. Although Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic is not a 100% synthetic oil (in my book), I doubt that Royal Purple is "more synthetic" (but maybe he is right). From what I heard, Royal Purple uses a synthetic-blend base stock but a proprietary synthetic additive package called "Synerlec."

All major oils are good nowadays but price points are also important too.
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  #14  
Old 04-12-2002, 09:44 PM
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Mobil 1 with SuperSyn specs

Mobil 1 has released the specs for its new "Mobil 1 with SuperSyn".

I have updated my compilation (comparing the Tri-Synthetic with the new one with SuperSyn). See it at

http://members.net-port.com/~loub/car/oil_S.htm


Or go to the Mobil 1' site at

http://mobil1.com/supersyn/index.jsp

The specs of the new oils with SuperSyn are exactly the same as the SL rated Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic (which lived for about a month from mid-March to its replacement by the "with SuperSyn").

Bo
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  #15  
Old 04-13-2002, 03:24 AM
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My trust in Mobil 1 has been somewhat diminished with all these marketing changes lately. I did find this in reference to the "3 synthetic fluids" in the tri-synthetic formulation.
http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900FAQ/Fuel-LubricantData1.html#Synthetic%20Oil%20Notes

Here's another question, was the addition of this super-syn necessary to meet the SL standards and the customer's standards?
Darryl
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