Scott, I think he was referring to the use of this tool. I'd like to get my IP book in, so I might be able to figure it out too.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching&item=120310495566&viewitem=

Hi bud,

I have just bought one of these but noticed a previous poster mentioned it didn't allow for chain stretch?



Wouldn't the wear be taken up as you moved the pump?

Thanks,

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David


1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)

Example: If you have 6 degrees of Timing Chain Stretch (as measured with the 2mm method) and you timed your IP to 24 degrees with the Drip Method or 15 ATDC using the Lock Pin; that would time your IP. However, your Camshaft Timing would still be 6 Degrees late.
I think it would be better to use and offset Woodruff Key to correct the late Camshaft Timing and then time the IP.

More comment: There are no instructions in the FSM for using the Locking Pin to time the IP while it is already on the Engine. I was made to Lock The IP durning re-insertion of the IP back into the Engine after it has been removed.

However I think to use it for what you want to use it for you will need to get the Crankshaft Damper on 15 Degrees ATDC on the Compression Stroke; remove the Plug on the IP where the Locking Pin will go; loosen front and rear Bolts holding the IP; insert the Locing pin paying attention to the orientation of the slot on the Locking pin like this (-) as it locks on to a flat screwdriver type protrusion on the end of the camshaft.

If you believe your origional timing is late rotate the top of the IP towards the Engine block (to advance the timing) slowly until the Locking Pin locks.

It is also a lot easier/more controable to rotate the IP with the Hard Lines removed.

I think it would have been nice if when they made the Locking Pin they had also put a correspoiding slot on the small part of the pin that sticks out so it would be easier to orient the inside slot.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

Thanks for the reply, burning the mid night oil here

this is for the engine timing on the 201 but it's the same for OM605 and will use the notch tool instead of RIV A & B light.

It has a small vernier bolt to adjust back and forth,

So this would get the IP timing spot on with the crank but may not be 100% timed with the cam - how can you alter the cam timing? if I moved it one tooth either way that would be a massive change -

Not sure about the wood ruff key, could you explain a bit more?

The twin cams fitted to the OM605/6 have a hole in the sprocket which you put a 7mm drill into once lined up with a hole in the cam housing - this locks them at TDC on the compression stroke, you then line up the crank TDC and fit the chain, I did notice that mine was maybe 1 degree out but as mentioned I cannot see a way of altering that - I'll check what the allowance is in thee manual -







I think the bottom of the adjustment bolt is number 17 on below diagram (ignore the circled item those are parts needed)

__________________
David


1996 Mercedes S124 E300TD - 129k - rolling restoration project -

1998 Mercedes W210 300TD - 118k (assimilated into above vehicle)

Ok... just to keep new people's concepts in line with the physics... the procedure shown by Scott does not increase or decrease the flow of fuel to the engine. What we are talking about here is a method of setting WHEN the flow hits the bore of the engine.

Adjusting the actual fuel flow is done on the pump AND Should be left to really experienced people...

I am totally with Forcedinduction... the ' well up' method is not prescribed by the Mercedes Shop Manual but what Scott shows IS... trust the guys that made the car and have multimillion dollar R and D departments..., wrote the manual, and more importantly reputations to protect.

I believe, as a general rule, if you bump the timing a 'skosh" advanced with an older 617/6 its going to run better as that "skosh' compensates for a chain thats worn some.,

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1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

for that matter... why can't you use your full length line?

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the point is that the fuel gets to the high spot in bent line so that when any more is added, it spills over (like a gas trap in a toilet) giveing you an accurate measurement. A full injector line is to oddly shaped and long.

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1981 300SD 512k OM603

I don't buy it. AN injector line has that shape near the injector.

Irregular shapes mean nothing to fluids.

length means nothing to pressure either. (for this distance)



The only thing the drip tube has going for it is a smaller inside diameter and a sharp drip edge... that PERHAPS, may create a smaller droplet than a tube.

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"turbobenz" is correct as far as he goes.
The drip tube is as short as possible (for the OEM) to accommodate a machine operation U bender and REDUCE the cranking needed to fill the tube for this operation.
Drip timing should be done on a flat/level parking area for best accuracy.
Diesel fuel gets to the high spot in the bent line, then when more is added, it spills over, the overflow runs down to the V-point, focusing the flow, and giving you a reasonably accurate drip/time measurement.

A full length injector line is oddly shaped and very long.

Does anyone recall injector pulse spray volume, I seem to recall it as 0.00X CC per cycle.

I think that before you re-time your IP you should have some idea what your Timing Chain Stretch is before you time the IP.
Example: I have 2 degrees of Timing Chain Stretch on my car (= 2 degrees retarded/late Camshaft and IP timing if the PO has not changed it).
So, if I time my IP at 24 degrees I will still be have 2 degrees of late/retarded IP timing.

In the Service Manual I believe you keep the IP bolted down and rotate the engine until you get "begin of injection" (via the drip method) and then look at the degrees and check to see how far off your begin injection is.
Afterwhich you loosen the IP and adjust (via the drip method) it to the degrees you want it to be set at.

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84 300D, 82 Volvo 244Gl Diesel

The bubble method is wholly innaccurate, PARTICULARLY on 84 cali and 85 engines. It was off by over 10 degrees. Get the drip tube and do it right. Looking at the welling at the delivery valve says nothing about the drip pattern.

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42

I am afraid I don't understand the difference b/w the drip and bubble methods. One displaces fuel, the other displaces air by pushing fuel, the volumes should be the same.

Stevo, what happens when your line runs out of air b/c you suck at timing (like me) and are now pushing fuel into your bubble cup?

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The idea is to gently blow through the hose which produces bubbles while slowly turning the engine (I use the P/S bolt). When the bubbles stop, your there, check out the marks and adjust accordingly. Fuel is not sucked into the bubble cup (or pushed) WARNING doing this backwards my cause ingestion of diesel fuel, no sucking.

Like I said, check out the method on the work bench if you have spare IP lying around, you'll throw rocks at the drip tube method

__________________


1985 Euro 240D 5 spd 140K
1979 240D 5 spd, 40K on engine rebuild
1994 Dodge/Cummins, 5 spd, 121K
1964 Allice Chalmers D15 tractor
2014 Kubota L3800 tractor
1964 VW bug

"Lifes too short to drive a boring car"

Seems to me you want to set the engine at 24 degrees and then rotate the IP until the bubbles stop.

__________________
http://superturbodiesel.com/images/sig.04.10.jpg
1995 E420 Schwarz
1995 E300 Weiss
#1987 300D Sturmmachine
#1991 300D Nearly Perfect
#1994 E320 Cabriolet
#1995 E320 Touring
#1985 300D Sedan
OBK #42