Replacing Starter 1980TD - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

pawoSD · #16 01-31-2008, 12:47 AM

I just used a craftsman Allen key (the kind with a longer handle to it) with a vice grips locked onto it to undo the lower starter bolt. (with sheer muscle power

) And for the top one I dremeled off a 1.5-2 cm long piece of the same Allen key....(off the end of the handle) and used that in the upper bolt + the open end of a wrench with a piece of pipe over it for leverage. Worked great. Gotta improvise and make tools sometimes.

No extensions needed!

2dieseljohn · #17 01-31-2008, 01:18 AM

I have done this job on my non-turbo 3Xs (Long story), once from the bottom and twice from the top and believe me when I say the top is the way to go. As you can see every thing is in plain view. You will need a new exhaust gasket. If you do choose to go with the top I think I still have a Tool list and some step by step pics.
Regards

kerry · #18 01-31-2008, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2dieseljohn

I have done this job on my non-turbo 3Xs (Long story), once from the bottom and twice from the top and believe me when I say the top is the way to go. As you can see every thing is in plain view. You will need a new exhaust gasket. If you do choose to go with the top I think I still have a Tool list and some step by step pics.
Regards

That looks like a 616 engine. There's a world of difference between the two when it comes to starter replacement. That top starter bolt is very hard to access from the top and apply serious force to at the same time.

If a person has to remove the exhaust and intake manifolds, I can't see how it would be easier than below which is less than a 2 hr job.

2dieseljohn · #19 01-31-2008, 11:10 AM

I did not think a 5 vs 4 would not be that much of a difference. I got the idea from this forum and I thought it applied to all non-turbos. The whole job is only is truly 1/2 the time and you don't need a helper to wrestle the starter out the bottom plus your not laying on your back getting stuff in your eyes. The bolts were very easy to get to from the top but I have a 4 speed not a auto so that may be the difference. I stand corrected.

tobybul · #20 01-31-2008, 01:24 PM

I do have access to an indy who will let me use one of the 2-post hoists in his shop. Problem is getting the car there as I I don't hink I can get the starter to engage.

However, if I do it at home, I can take my time. If I bring it to the indy, I gotta finish it pronto.

But it sounds like what I am hearing is that a 1/2" dr is best. I'll have to put this off for later thought as I picked up a bug and am down right now.

unclemark · #21 02-01-2008, 03:51 PM

Is it a metric nut or an allan wrench type?

kerry · #22 02-01-2008, 03:57 PM

The two bolts holding the starter to the motor have allen heads.

pawoSD · #23 02-01-2008, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobybul

I do have access to an indy who will let me use one of the 2-post hoists in his shop. Problem is getting the car there as I I don't hink I can get the starter to engage.

However, if I do it at home, I can take my time. If I bring it to the indy, I gotta finish it pronto.

But it sounds like what I am hearing is that a 1/2" dr is best. I'll have to put this off for later thought as I picked up a bug and am down right now.

You could always pull start it....though getting enough traction to do so would probably be pretty hard right now.

You have access to a 2-post lift? No fair!

yellowbenz · #24 02-01-2008, 05:32 PM

My first "big" job on a car was replacing the starter on a 1978 rabbit diesel. No lift needed, right in front. Climbed under and used my crappy import tools. Remember that that starter was pretty heavy. Took about 15 minutes. I'm not looking forward to this job on the Mercedes.

Kevin

1978 300D
1979 240D

yogarda · #25 02-05-2008, 10:40 AM

'83 300DT - I just had to pull mine last night - I had been trying to figure out a tool combo for a couple weeks, unable to find a thread like this.

However, I was able to use a 3/8" u-joint and a 3/8" set of extensions with an adapter to 1/2" just before my breaker bar. These were all impact-material from Harbor Freight (total cost under $30) which may have made the difference on torsion. And I didn't have to extend terribly long; maybe 1.5 feet. The tool placement was:

10mm hex socket; 3/8" impact u-joint; couple of 3/8" impact extensions totalling maybe 15", impact 3/8" -> 1/2" converter; 1/2" breaker.

I did take the tranny dipstick tube right out (it was time for a fluid change anyway), and I also removed the rear transmission mounting bracket AND my flex disc (!) to allow the tranny to drop and the bolt head to come away from the firewall quite a bit. I found that without all of these items removed, space was just too tight to be sure I'd get the right kind of leverage on that top bolt. (And it only takes 10 minutes to take them all off anyhow.)

Coming in from the underside, extension to the left side of the exhaust pipe between it and the tranny. Then the u-joint lets the extension swivel up, nearly touching the rear of the tranny. Let the breaker cross under the tranny, then pray, and then give a huge pull down/right.

Here are links to the tools I used:
Hex socket set $13: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=93193
3/8" impact extensions $9: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=2762 (they have these in 1/2" which I'd have preferred for 2 dollars more but my store was sold out).
And they have a $7 set of 3 impact u-joints in 1/4", 3/8", and 1/2" but I can't find that online at the moment.

Be prepared that the initial crack of those bolts is gonna make you think you broke the bolt or a tool. For me, as soon as each bolt cracked, it was nearly finger-tight. Scary.

And definitely I echo whoever said to use jack stands rather than ramps; starter does drop out when headed for the front of the car with wheels at full-right-turn that way.

I am not a professional mechanic; but for what it's worth, I was telling my wife this morning that I have never spent so much time working against a single bolt as that top starter bolt. In fact, I was sure I must have approaching the problem wrong, so I spoke with a mechanic at my local Merc dealer; he basically said he was shocked that one of these starters went bad because they almost never do, but for the few he's had to do, it's just a long battle. His quote was 4 hours, and he's got a lift. If I had to do this again with the toolset I came up with and the advice given throughout this thread, the 2hr estimate is spot-on, even with my extra steps of bracket, flex-disc, and dipstick tube removal.

unclemark · #26 02-05-2008, 12:16 PM

Sunday i was able to work on getting my starter out, Had to use a 2 foot and 1 foot extension, and a wobble joint. I foung the best way for me to get to it was remove the exhaust down tube. Took the starter to The Automobile Zone and O's to have tested and they both got a screen that the technicians have never seen before. Said something like "test incomplete test on car" took it to 3 other stores just to make sure it wasnt the tools and they were on the way to school and got the same reading. So i ordered another one. My bad luck yesterday was 80+ degrees outside, today 45. Starter will be here this afternoon and we are expecting winter mix tommorow. Im cursed

MB300D81 · #27 02-06-2008, 06:09 AM

Guys I can not thank you enough for this thread and all the help and advises offered here.

I managed to take off the starter moter send it for reconditionning and install it back into my 1980 300D.

It took me two and half hours to finish the job - Thanks to your help guys.

Some of the advises here was to have a helper to hold the starter motor.

I could not get anyone to help me so I used 3 wide cable ties formed in the shape of a chain - one cable tie at the motor cable conection and another two hanging the starter motor on the transmission dip stick bracket. Then I went under the car and started both bolts by hand and finished the job with mega long extensions.

I had to disconnect the muffler to drop the starter motor too.

That was really two and half hours of fun

Thank you so much guys.

Regards,

MB300D81
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Maxbumpo · #28 02-06-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sbean

Be sure the bolt socket is completely clear and clean and the wrench fits well.

Steve's advice is KEY! Clean out the bolt with a piece of wire or somesuch, and make sure the hex bit is completely seated. If you strip this one, you'll probably need to take car to a mechanic for them to save you.

Proper tools and technique will make removal a snap, but getting the starter past the steering linkage is a bit of a puzzle.

tobybul · #29 02-09-2008, 05:35 PM

Ok, ok, 3/8" drive unversal broke on me. I gotta get me a 1/2" drive one. The hex bolts looked pretty good but I think they were just in tight.

Basically, I had 1/2" extensions going to a 3/8" uni to a 3/8" hex. It was not difficult to get to but broke the uni before I could budge the hex. And yes, looks like the down pipe has to be removed to get the srter off.

I am still wondering if its better to work on it from the top by removing the manifold.

But will have to put off work for a couple of weeks.

kerry · #30 02-09-2008, 05:39 PM

There was no need to mess with anything other than the starter when I did it in my 77 300d NA. The bolts are TIGHT. I'd be using 1/2" all the way.