2008 CDI Limp Mode using B100 - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

greasybenz · #16 07-11-2008, 06:01 PM

My god what misinformation are you guys giving this guy??!!!!

First off YOUR WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED so dont worry about everyone saying it is. Second check the codes and see what they read, my thoughts on this is that the biodiesel may not be of the best quality if its giving you issues.

Check with your fuel supplier and ask them for the latest test sheets on the biodiesel they have for sale. What you have to look for is if it passed the ASTM minimum requirements. If it hasnt you probably have some bad bio in there.

If anything drain the tank fill it back up with diesel. The fuel test costs $800-1000 for them to determine what fuel was in the tank. Dealers arent going to spend that kinda money just to not honor the warranty repair TRUST ME. The warranty will still be honorable in that sense and they wont know anything unless you come out and tell them you were running biodiesel.

moxieman2 · #17 07-11-2008, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

My god what misinformation are you guys giving this guy??!!!!

First off YOUR WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED so dont worry about everyone saying it is. Second check the codes and see what they read, my thoughts on this is that the biodiesel may not be of the best quality if its giving you issues.

Check with your fuel supplier and ask them for the latest test sheets on the biodiesel they have for sale. What you have to look for is if it passed the ASTM minimum requirements. If it hasnt you probably have some bad bio in there.

If anything drain the tank fill it back up with diesel. The fuel test costs $800-1000 for them to determine what fuel was in the tank. Dealers arent going to spend that kinda money just to not honor the warranty repair TRUST ME. The warranty will still be honorable in that sense and they wont know anything unless you come out and tell them you were running biodiesel.

Let me assure you sir, if anything on that engine fails due to the use of B100 biodiesel, Mercedes-Benz will NOT cover it under warranty. There's a reason why it says "Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel Only" on the dash above the headlamp switch and on the fuel flap. The B5 approval was on OFFICIAL press release from Mercedes....although, I not sure its even worth it....

greasybenz · #18 07-11-2008, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxieman2

Let me assure you sir, if anything on that engine fails due to the use of B100 biodiesel, Mercedes-Benz will NOT cover it under warranty. There's a reason why it says "Ultra-Low Sulfur Diesel Fuel Only" on the dash above the headlamp switch and on the fuel flap. The B5 approval was on OFFICIAL press release from Mercedes....although, I not sure its even worth it....

Yes but its not voided is my point. Second if he drains and refills the tank with regular diesel they wont know anything unless he tells them he was running biodiesel. The concentration of diesel will be much higher then whatever bio is in there that even if they did test the fuel it wont show up as even B1.

EDIT: Most dealers dont even want to do warranty work because service writers dont make any money off it. So they will try not to cover any warranty covered issue anyway, theyd rather try to charge you for the repair.

moxieman2 · #19 07-11-2008, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Yes but its not voided is my point. Second if he drains and refills the tank with regular diesel they wont know anything unless he tells them he was running biodiesel. The concentration of diesel will be much higher then whatever bio is in there that even if they did test the fuel it wont show up as even B1.

EDIT: Most dealers dont even want to do warranty work because service writers dont make any money off it. So they will try not to cover any warranty covered issue anyway, theyd rather try to charge you for the repair.

I see, I guess I see your point, but I still wouldn't chance it....Not on a brand new car...What makes you think Service Advisors don't get paid on warranty work...I have a really good friend who is a Benz Service Advisor, and trust me to him, hours are hours....In fact, according to him, with all the indie Benz shops, if it weren't for warranty work, he wouldn't have much of a paycheck (with the exception of the ones that come from indies who don't have any idea what they're doing, and there's plenty of those, he usually makes double time on those, he has to fix what they screwed up, then fix the original issue...

)

greasybenz · #20 07-11-2008, 06:33 PM

Not to get too off topic moxieman, maybe the dealer your buddy works for is an hourly based pay plan. I know of a few BMW dealers that are like that. The dealers ive worked for as a service writer gave me a $1400 draw and the rest was all commission, the more you screw the customer on repairs the more commission you make.

For example, customer comes in complaining about brakes squeaking. You know its a simple $5 job but you tell them you need all new rotors and brakes pads for $1500. CHA-CHING! commission baby!

But i like standard cars sales, it pays better

moxieman2 · #21 07-11-2008, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Not to get too off topic moxieman, maybe the dealer your buddy works for is an hourly based pay plan. I know of a few BMW dealers that are like that. The dealers ive worked for as a service writer gave me a $1400 draw and the rest was all commission, the more you screw the customer on repairs the more commission you make.

For example, customer comes in complaining about brakes squeaking. You know its a simple $5 job but you tell them you need all new rotors and brakes pads for $1500. CHA-CHING! commission baby!

But i like standard cars sales, it pays better

That's possible, btw, looked at ur pics 2 really nice examples, very nice job with the updates on the 300D!

DieselAddict · #22 07-11-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxieman2

The B5 approval was on OFFICIAL press release from Mercedes....although, I not sure its even worth it....

That was for the old CDI's wasn't it? I don't know if that applies to the Bluetec. It's possible that no biodiesel is allowed whatsoever (though I'm pretty sure B5 wouldn't hurt it). We still don't know which engine the OP actually has. If it's really a 2008 it's definitely a Bluetec.

yellowbenz · #23 07-11-2008, 07:05 PM

Here's a link to mercedes position on biodiesel circa January 2007.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/OEM%20Statements/20060608_Mercedes_Benz_bio_position.pdf
Doesn't sound to good for the OP, but as many have stated more info is needed regarding the actual fuel used and what the codes mean.

JimmyL · #24 07-11-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

For example, customer comes in complaining about brakes squeaking. You know its a simple $5 job but you tell them you need all new rotors and brakes pads for $1500. CHA-CHING! commission baby!

Gee, and all this time I thought your forum named was based on fuel preference, not character......

Also, first you say it won't void the warranty.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

First off YOUR WARRANTY IS NOT VOIDED so dont worry about everyone saying it is.

Second you say they won't test the fuel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

The fuel test costs $800-1000 for them to determine what fuel was in the tank. Dealers arent going to spend that kinda money just to not honor the warranty repair TRUST ME.

Third you say that when you drain the Bio and fill it with diesel it won't be detectable if they test it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Second if he drains and refills the tank with regular diesel they wont know anything unless he tells them he was running biodiesel.

Good example of "you get what you pay for" on this forum sometimes.

greasybenz · #25 07-11-2008, 07:38 PM

Hey the car business is a cut throat world. You either make your money and swim or make no money and sink. You really have to have no sympathy for others when it comes to your money in the car business. I mean thats pretty standard in all types of sales, Real Estate especially.

As far as the warranty goes. It wont void your warranty, they just wont honor it if its not within your warrantys limits. What im saying simply is this:

1: drain the fuel put in regular diesel

2: take it to the dealer keep your mouth shut about biodiesel

3: IF! and thats a pretty big if, they suspect wrong type of fuel was the culprit they may go ahead and test the fuel but its a $800-$1000 test to check. Most dealers rather reset the computer to take it out of limp mode instead of paying for the expensive test that may or may not be the problem.

If you bring the car in will a full tank of bio and they can physically see and smell it who needs to test it? They will instantly put the blame on the fuel. Then charge you for the repair instead of fix it under warranty.

DieselAddict · #26 07-11-2008, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yellowbenz

Here's a link to mercedes position on biodiesel circa January 2007.
http://www.biodiesel.org/pdf_files/OEM%20Statements/20060608_Mercedes_Benz_bio_position.pdf
Doesn't sound to good for the OP, but as many have stated more info is needed regarding the actual fuel used and what the codes mean.

Thanks for the doc. So basically up to 5% is allowed even in the Bluetecs.

#27 07-11-2008, 08:04 PM

If you have a 2008 E320 it is a Bluetec. Just hope that whatever you broke isn't expensive because you'll be paying for it, the warranty won't cover damage from non-approved fuels. Injectors aren't cheap, the particulate filter will run around $3000 and an engine will run close to $10,000 after labor and tax. They don't need to do just a tank dip to tell you've been running more than B5, they can tell by the combustion marks on the pistons and engine oil contents.

Mercedes' B5 press release covers all their diesel engines from all years, 1936-2009.

You have yet to explain what virgin B100 is. If its SVO, which is not biodiesel, you're likely going to get a big repair bill. If its actual retail or homebrew biodiesel then you may get lucky with only a few injectors and/or the particulate filter.

CoyoteStarfish · #28 07-11-2008, 09:04 PM

In my experience; high % biodiesel = dead common rail engine

Details:

'07 Dodge Cummins:
Coked injectors, two locked injectors resulting in hydrolock. Head blown off deck, snapped crank and bent connecting rods. Claims the turbo was damaged somehow as a result.

Fuel used: B80 (homebrew 2-stage acid/base from waste oil, vacuum flash-boiled to extract water)

'05 Jeep Liberty CRD:
Coked injectors, replaced twice. Would enter limp mode constantly after that. Cycling the vehicles ignition solved the problem for about 15 minutes then it would go back to reduced power.

Fuel used: B50 (homebrew 2-stage acid/base from waste oil, vacuum flash-boiled to extract water)

The verdict? As far as I've been informed:

Vegetable oils and subsequently Transesterfied Fatty Acids, whether methylated or ethylated have a specific gravity closer to that of Water and as a result, may EMULSIFY with water. See more.

Specific gravity is the ratio of the density of a given substance to the density of water. Less than 1 is lighter than water. More than 1 is heavier.

Diesel and Veggie oil:
0.82 - Typical sample of diesel fuel
0.92 - Vegetalbe oils
1.0 - Water

What this means? Waters lubricating properties pale in comparison to that of dewatered biodiesel or diesel fuel.

When emulsified, non-homogeneous molecules of water pass through the injections systems on these newer vehicles which have much lower tolerences for forign objects or fluid contaminations, the resulting "spot" of nonlubricity can cause serious damage to the internals of these parts resulting in, sometimes, catastrophic failures.

Another suspected culprit is glycerine, the tri-glyceride portion removed from tri-glyceride fatty-acids (Veggie oil) which in even the best homebrew setups the removal is only about 95% effective.

5% does not mean much to a 20+ year old diesel with mechanical injection pump. It does mean a lot to newer engines with 10x the operating pressures and higher combustion temperatures and pressures.

I've been told a centrifuge woul reduce the glycerine contine to about >1% but I haven't had a $15,000 centrifuge and a CDI/CRD engine to test it on

ILUVMILS · #29 07-11-2008, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

Dealers arent going to spend that kinda money just to not honor the warranty repair TRUST ME.

No, trust ME!. MBUSA will provide a fuel test kit to any dealer who suspects a fuel quality issue might be responsible for a drivability problem. As per MBUSA warranty policy, replacing any fuel system parts on the OM642 diesel engine requires pre-authorization from MBUSA, before a dealer can perform repairs under warranty. MBUSA is well aware of the bio-diesel issue, and has gone to great lengths to avoid paying warranty claims due to operator negligence. All MB dealer “key” service personnel (Shop Foreman for example

), have been advised to consider fuel quality issues before spending time on needless diagnostics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

As far as the warranty goes. It wont void your warranty.

This statement is almost correct. Using bio-diesel won’t void the warranty. Well, not exactly. If bio-diesel is found to be the cause of the problem, the vehicle owner is responsible for the cost of the repairs. Once the vehicle has been repaired, the manufacturers’ warranty will still be in effect for the remainder of the mileage/time allowed, unless the owner decides to use bio-diesel again!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by greasybenz

What im saying simply is this:

1: drain the fuel put in regular diesel

2: take it to the dealer keep your mouth shut about biodiesel

3: IF! and thats a pretty big if, they suspect wrong type of fuel was the culprit they may go ahead and test the fuel but its a $800-$1000 test to check. Most dealers rather reset the computer to take it out of limp mode instead of paying for the expensive test that may or may not be the problem.

Yeah, this is good advice. Take the low-road. Greasybenz, do you think all MB dealers are complete idiots? If this vehicle showed up at my dealership, I’d spot the B.S. in two seconds. If the client tried to jerk me around, and waste my very valuable time (I should be helping clients with legitimate problems), I certainly wouldn’t appreciate it. On the other hand, if a client told me the truth (and didn’t waste my time), and asked if I could do anything to help, I wouldn’t think twice. I’d do whatever I could to help. Your approach would probably end up back-firing.

TMAllison · #30 07-11-2008, 09:33 PM

ILUVMILS - Thanks for clarifying.

Lance - That MB Press release only address's CDI and Bluetec engines. Is there another release you are remembering?

AUSTINMC - I'd still recommend getting the B100 drained before firing it up again; or tow it and let the dealer do it. AND...what IS "VIRGIN B100"??? Please elaborate.