advice on removing ignition tumblers - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

GregMN · #1 10-15-2009, 12:11 PM

1987 W201 on loan to my son-in-law.
The key will not turn in the ignition lock. The key is not stuck in the lock. The lock is stuck in the "off " position.

He has tried everything:
turning the steering wheel
turning the key hard
turning the key soft
pushed in hard and turning
pulled out slightly and turning
vibrating the key with a sander
begging
pleading
threatening

The last one was not a hollow threat. I have a new tumbler set and key in the mail to him.

He cannot get the tumbler turned to the first position with the key, so it can be removed with a wire tool. What sort of mechanical attack upon the tumbler would you advise to get the old tumbler out without damaging anything else?
A drill?
Pound in a large screw driver and twist it ?

Thanks,
Greg

This is yet another reason I should not have had the parts car tow away. I would have had something to practice on.

Jeremy5848 · #2 10-15-2009, 12:20 PM

You MUST get the tumbler to the #1 position else face a difficult and expensive drill-out process. I'd advise squirting some lubrication into the keyhole and using the vibrating sander along with gentle wiggling of the key for as long as it takes to get the key to turn. Consider buying a new key from your local dealer, if the existing key is not in like-new condition.

GregMN · #3 10-15-2009, 12:26 PM

Thanks for your reply.

What expenses, beyond needing a new tumbler set, which I already have, would happen if the old set was drilled out?

Jeremy5848 · #4 10-15-2009, 12:35 PM

I cannot give you good advice, have only read multiple horror stories on this forum and others. Some speak of having damaged the steering lock and the ignition switch. I suspect that the major cost is labor, when you give up and take it to a dealer, independent mechanic, or automotive locksmith. You can look up the part numbers for your car in EPC and a dealer or Phil at FastLane can give you prices. "Several hundred dollars" would be a good starting point, I should imagine.

babymog · #5 10-15-2009, 12:39 PM

As above, have him try the new key when he gets it.

Crazy_Nate · #6 10-15-2009, 12:53 PM

Definitely try a different key before moving on.

Here's some reading:
W124 Lock Cylinder Replacement: How-to <= if you can get it to turn, it should be very similar
Broken Key Dispute: Please Weigh In w/Opinion Don't force it too hard!
Ignition Lock Cylinder Stuck in Position "0", Can't get it apart to fix it!!! Some good technical information
Ventng About My Ingnition Swith - W124 1989 Has a dealer quote ($$) in first post
Think the tumbler has gone on 88 300TE Pictures on page 3
Replacing the Ignition Switch on the 1989 190E (W201) Last, but definitely not least...

Best of luck!

tbomachines · #7 10-15-2009, 01:01 PM

Not a good prognosis. Here is the thread with my similar issues:

(Urgent!) Am I out of options? W126 Ignition tumbler

Yak · #8 10-15-2009, 08:47 PM

In theory, you could drill through the collar/tumbler to depress the retaining clip so you could then unscrew the collar and remove it following the "key in position 1" procedure. There's a thread that includes this info: Think the tumbler has gone on 88 300TE

"Also, check out this locksmith. He has developed a MB Template for drilling out tumblers.

Randy Mize
Mize Lock & Key
367 Hickory Spring Ln, Union, MO (314) 353-0779

"RANDY MIZE: With 30 years experience as an automotive locksmith, Randy has made transponders and high security his priority. Randy is the inventor of Lockmasters' High Security Flip Pick and the Mercedes Drill Template. Randy is considered the most highly respected automotive locksmith in the US because of his devotion to the trade and his exceptional energy level. He is also a consultant to aftermarket tool manufacturers and OE automobile manufacturers."

If you have an uninstalled tumbler and collar (like from a parts car...) you might be able to figure it out without a template. You need to insert a thin piece of metal/wire/rod to retract two spring clips, then unscrew the collar.

I think the concept is simple: you could make a template of the key slot and the locations of the two holes. Rotate the template to so the slot would align with position 1, then drill the holes. You now have two holes in the tumbler where they would be if the the key were in position 1. In practice, there's probably a lot more to it, like the tumbler isn't hollow there, or there's no room for the spring to compress, or you need the key to have turned to retract the slots so the collar can rotate.

Or, you can go to Lockmasters! http://www.lockmasters.com/lkmpdfs/AprilMay08.pdf

It says "single hole" though, so it may be limited in utility.

GregMN · #9 10-15-2009, 11:01 PM

Thanks for your responses. I am now pretty well read on the subject. So, if the new key will not turn the old tumbler to position #1 for him, I will drive the 200 miles to attempt the job myself. That way if anything gets broken on my car, it will be me that did it.

charmalu · #10 10-16-2009, 12:57 AM

Lockmaster is interesting, only thing is you have to be qualified in the security field to buy.

Charlie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yak

In theory, you could drill through the collar/tumbler to depress the retaining clip so you could then unscrew the collar and remove it following the "key in position 1" procedure. There's a thread that includes this info: Think the tumbler has gone on 88 300TE

"Also, check out this locksmith. He has developed a MB Template for drilling out tumblers.

Randy Mize
Mize Lock & Key
367 Hickory Spring Ln, Union, MO (314) 353-0779

"RANDY MIZE: With 30 years experience as an automotive locksmith, Randy has made transponders and high security his priority. Randy is the inventor of Lockmasters' High Security Flip Pick and the Mercedes Drill Template. Randy is considered the most highly respected automotive locksmith in the US because of his devotion to the trade and his exceptional energy level. He is also a consultant to aftermarket tool manufacturers and OE automobile manufacturers."

If you have an uninstalled tumbler and collar (like from a parts car...) you might be able to figure it out without a template. You need to insert a thin piece of metal/wire/rod to retract two spring clips, then unscrew the collar.

I think the concept is simple: you could make a template of the key slot and the locations of the two holes. Rotate the template to so the slot would align with position 1, then drill the holes. You now have two holes in the tumbler where they would be if the the key were in position 1. In practice, there's probably a lot more to it, like the tumbler isn't hollow there, or there's no room for the spring to compress, or you need the key to have turned to retract the slots so the collar can rotate.

Or, you can go to Lockmasters! http://www.lockmasters.com/lkmpdfs/AprilMay08.pdf

It says "single hole" though, so it may be limited in utility.

Sev · #11 10-16-2009, 02:06 AM

if you don't care about your igntiion tumbler being loose from your steering wheel, you can always cut the black steel of the column on the tumbler's body side of the column with an angle grinder and just pull the bad housing out of there, and install a new housing with new tumbler. that's if all the above suggestions don't work

GregMN · #12 10-19-2009, 11:10 PM

Thanks for everyone's advice. I got the new key to turn to the "remove" position. I could not get the tumblers to release with the wire tool. I tried several times to get the face plate to turn with a screwdriver and a hammer. Then I decided to go in the house to review the procedure. While I am doing that, 2 minutes later my son-in-law comes in with a grin on his face and the tumbler set in his hand. He had spent more time trying to get it out in the last week than I did. So, he was more frustrated. He just hit it harder than I had.

The problem was that the steering lock paw had broken off and jammed at the rear of the assembly. The new set is in and he now has 2 keys.