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  #46  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
Below is a pic Deliveryvalve sent me showing how he removed his Ball Joint. I added the Yellow Arrow to show the direction it comes out.
He is using a Socket as the Punch to knock out the Joint.

Note that the Steering Knuckle is upside down. The Factory Service Manual shows it upside down but with part of it held in a Vice so that you can Beat the Joint out.
Thinking again about this method, with the knuckle not supported in a vise but resting on the ground, I wonder if there is any danger of bending the knuckle at the weakest point (near the UCA where it is thinner)? It is a long and curved piece. If it was straight, I'd have less worry. It is a pretty beefy piece but hit it hard enough without any give from the ball joint, could it bend? And how would you know if it did or did not bend? It would be hard to tell without a jig.

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  #47  
Old 12-21-2009, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by funola View Post
Thinking again about this method, with the knuckle not supported in a vise but resting on the ground, I wonder if there is any danger of bending the knuckle at the weakest point (near the UCA where it is thinner)? It is a long and curved piece. If it was straight, I'd have less worry. It is a pretty beefy piece but hit it hard enough without any give from the ball joint, could it bend? And how would you know if it did or did not bend? It would be hard to tell without a jig.

Yeah, I think he said to watch out for that. I had mine against a plastic tub full of sand, so I just assumed that it'd go through the plastic before it bends. It didn't take that much force.
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  #48  
Old 12-21-2009, 04:30 PM
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I posted Deliveryvalves pic in order to show the direction the Ball Joint was supposed to be removed from.
I do not think Deliveryvalve pounded out the Joint like that. I think he was just showing the use of the Socket as a Punch and the type of Hammer that might be needed.
Also if his Car is from CA it is not going to be rusted in like the East Coast Cars; where it snows.
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  #49  
Old 12-21-2009, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Diesel911 View Post
I do not think Deliveryvalve pounded out the Joint like that.
Here is his post # 16 of this thread detailing him doing exactly that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
I had an assistant hold the knuckle for me down on the concrete.
There might be a reason those wild and crazy MB engineers Hans and Franz decided to do the many things the various ways they have! Perhaps they actually tried the caveman methods and discovered the addition problems that can be created? I mean if they though pounding out the ball joint with the spindle's upper end braced against concrete were the preferred method they might have provided the measuring jig specified in the FSM as part of the standard tool kit!

I'm not here saying that everything the MB engineers have done is perfect, but having more than a passing familiarity with the Teutonic Anal Obsessive Compulsive genetic makeup I’d suspect that there has been an inordinate amount of thought, consideration, and reveiw brought to bear on these sorts of problems particularly with something like the 123 chassis and the 61X engine series.

There are lots of things that can be done in ways that "appear" to achieve equal or even better than results the designers methodology, I would simply argue that with most of these "modifications" of systems or procedure have a long uphill battle over time and real world operating conditions to prove any real advantages and few if any have done so!

Knowing the correct/best ways to accomplish something will often times allow you to achieve a better “hack job” if you more completely understand the wider array of impactful factors when determining what tradeoffs will have to be made under less than perfect circumstances.
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  #50  
Old 12-21-2009, 05:26 PM
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Guilty as charged. I did do it the way I said I did. But in my opinion, there is no way my weak arse could of bend this knuckle. The ball joint came out very easily. If there was any issue of pounding out the ball joint. I would of resorted to putting it in a vise or propping it up against somewhere in a way that the knuckle would not get damaged.

In any event, these cast iron pieces are very strong. You'd be surprised how much beating it can take and still keep it's shape.



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  #51  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post

In any event, these cast iron pieces are very strong. You'd be surprised how much beating it can take and still keep it's shape.



.
You'd be surprised at how little force is required to crack cast iron.............if the force is applied at a highly stressed location.

No, you won't bend the component from beating on it............but you may cause localized deformation at the point of support.
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  #52  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
Guilty as charged. I did do it the way I said I did. But in my opinion, there is no way my weak arse could of bend this knuckle. The ball joint came out very easily. If there was any issue of pounding out the ball joint. I would of resorted to putting it in a vise or propping it up against somewhere in a way that the knuckle would not get damaged.

In any event, these cast iron pieces are very strong. You'd be surprised how much beating it can take and still keep it's shape.




.
You think it's cast iron. Cast iron is brittle, no? Could it be forged maybe? As to how much beating it can take, how would you know? Deformation of the piece can be slight that may not be visible to the naked eye but could result in alignment issues.
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Last edited by funola; 12-21-2009 at 06:55 PM.
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  #53  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:21 PM
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The spindle is without question a machined steel forging!
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  #54  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:30 PM
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The spindle is without question a machined steel forging!
That would explain why he didn't fracture it..............
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  #55  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:41 PM
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Oops I meant to say forge steel. Yes I know cast iron would be brittle.

In any case, I was just reporting of how I did it. Not saying how you should do it. Have at it. So flame me if you will. I may or may not take it personal.
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  #56  
Old 12-21-2009, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
...
No, you won't bend the component from beating on it............but you may cause localized deformation at the point of support.
Possible, but I view it the same way as popping out the upper joint using this method.
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?p=2363510#post2363510

And I even wacked it harder here on cars then the the lower ball joint. Ok, I no longer saying any more here.


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  #57  
Old 12-21-2009, 07:45 PM
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Well, dang it, I hope I didn't damage mine. Right now I'm having trouble repacking the bearings. It seems like such an elementary thing that hopefully I just need that light bulb moment. I'm having trouble cleaning the outer bearing and removing the inner seal.
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  #58  
Old 12-21-2009, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JEBalles View Post
Right now I'm having trouble repacking the bearings. It seems like such an elementary thing that hopefully I just need that light bulb moment. I'm having trouble cleaning the outer bearing and removing the inner seal.
I sense that you're not repacking the bearings.................

The two bearings must be resting in your hands............thoroughly and completely clean.............with two perfectly clean hands............before you being repacking.
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  #59  
Old 12-21-2009, 08:05 PM
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I sense that you're not repacking the bearings.................

The two bearings must be resting in your hands............thoroughly and completely clean.............with two perfectly clean hands............before you being repacking.
Well, the goal being repacking It's getting up that point that I'm having trouble with.
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  #60  
Old 12-21-2009, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeliveryValve View Post
Oops I meant to say forge steel. Yes I know cast iron would be brittle.

In any case, I was just reporting of how I did it. Not saying how you should do it. Have at it. So flame me if you will. I may or may not take it personal.
Sorry, didn't mean to give you a hard time. From seeing a ball joint removed with such force with a 3 ft long sledge hammer in a splitting wood motion, it just worries me that the knuckle could be bent if supported incorrectly. I found this link which I believe is the official Mercedes procedure for ball joint R&R.

http://mercedes.thatchermathias.com/w123CD2/Program/Chassis/33-440.pdf
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