Dear All,

I thought I'd add some photographs of my most recent fun - Sub-frame removal and bushing replacement on my 1981 W123 300D.

If you are searching this forum BEFORE starting the job then the I'd say you are better off trying to remove the bushings by using the car's weight to push the bushings out of the sub frame.

However, if (like me) you've either

1) Already removed the sub frame and are now thinking "right how do I get the bushings out"...

or

2) The center pin in the bushing has corroded itself on to the pin-like bolt and has ripped itself out of the bushing

Then this information might be of use to you.

I'll start first with a picture of the pin-like bolt removal:-



When I tried to get the pin-like bolt out it was very very stiff. I used a 3/4" drive bar and put loads of weight behind it. This was probably a mistake - although as you can see the pin-like bolt is corroded fast to the middle part of the bushing (this is the powdery conical thing) - so may be a stupid amount of force was necessary...

...Anyway I found out that the amount of force necessary (in removing this pin-like bolt) is drastically reduced if you take the weight off of the sub frame by lifting the trailing arm with a jack - you can see this too in the picture. I'm definitely going to do this if I ever have to do the job again.

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Before I actually removed the sub frame I had already disconnected the calipers and removed the axles. I couldn't get enough access for removing the differential - well I didn't fancy scraping knuckles on the underside of the car to reach the four bolts that are attached to the sub frame so I finally managed to get the prop shaft out and pulled the diff and sub frame out together from under the car.

After easily removing the diff - and taking off the trailing arms I was able to fling the sub frame about with the greatest of ease for the next bit - bushing removal

Here is a picture of an attempt at removing the bushing by hammering it out with a bit punch



As you can see it didn't work. The rubber in the bushings was not strong enough to take the punishment. So I turned the sub frame over so that it was upside down from the position that it is fitted on the car.

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Levering under the lip of the bushing at its surface mounting point with a screw driver might work if the bushings are not rusted... but for me they were pretty stuck fast.

I used bolt cutters to snip the sides of the metal casing in the bushing and simultaneously trying to lever them out.



A sort of snip and twist motion got me enough space between the lip of the bushing and the sub-frame to get in screwdrivers and eventually a claw hammer.



With a claw hammer in place I could pull the bushing out just that little bit further to fit in the thicker claw of my crow bar.



The bushing popped out. Nice and easy eh?

Has anyone got a better way of doing this?

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I'll post some pictures of the finished product when the parts get here...

Isn`t that the most fun you ever had?

I just finished up doing this same project last week. I droped the whole assembly down and out. I removed the differential and the axles first. I have the Annular axles, so didn`t have to remove the diff cover. I did this to remove some of the weight first.

I used a small pry bar and worked around the sub bushing and they came right out. I didn`t have any rust issues, and the sub frame bolts came right out. the FSM shows to pry them out. but what ever works.

I made a bushing press out of some steel I had, cut and welded it. drilled a 5/8 hole in the center for a piece of all thread. a cross plate on the back side of the frame, with a 5/8 hole also. then uses Syl-Glide on the bushing and the inner hole in the frame. then cranked down on the nuts, and she went right in. I tried the KY-Jelly, and the bushing wouldn`t seat all the way in. removed it and used the Syl-glide, and went all the way in.

I made a bushing press similar to the one Whiskydan made.
www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=266324 I had trouble with using the washer he uses to push the bushing out. I replaced it with a large nut they use on Gard Rails. it pushed them right out. the washer just wanted to bend.

I also painted the arms and sub frame.

when I replaced the assembly, I installed the Diff , then used 3 floor jacks. one under each arm, and one under the Diff. then just rolled it under the car and raised it.
Note: Make sure the Differential mount isn`t on backwards.

I put 2 bolts in the diff mount, but the sub frame bolts were off. finally removed the diff bolts, screwed in the sub frame bolts. then the diff mount was off. then the light finally came on, DUHHHHHH
Amazing how easy things go together when things are facing the right way.

with the new bushing and diff mount, it is a different car.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

I can honestly report that it was indeed fun - I find it very satisfying to see a big change in the car for the time you put into it - I think there is nothing worse than doing electrics:- hardly any change when you've finished.

The link for whiskydan's home made tool is indeed a good one. I'm planning on posting some more pictures of that and my trailing arm bushings in another thread.

I'll take your advice for installing the new subframe bushings - thanks. Only I can't get slyglide over here. I have found an alternative made by Kroon oil (for those of you in Europe who might be reading this)... Kroon oil make a water based / food industry Silicone grease called "Silicon Compound".

I believe Syl-Glide is the lubricant recomended to use for the sun roof. close to what is the official MB stuff.

When I used the KY, the bushing didn`t seat all the way, had 1/4 inch gap.
used the Syl-Glide, and it went in with less effort. I coated the bushing and the hole.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Good job man. When I did these three weekends ago it was pretty easy. Nothing like the pain you had to go through. I used the car's weight to push the bushings out of the subframe and that was that. I couldn't imagine taking the subframe out of the car to do this job.

But your right, the car did handle a lot better with the subframe bushings in, and the differential mount replaced.

__________________
Professional greasecar installer
Austin TX


98 Jetta TDI with grease car kit + veg-therm (totaled)
87 MB 300SDL running on B99 / greasecar kit + 30 fphe
www.austingreaseguys.com

Here is an update (for those who are interested)

I got the bushings in with a little help of some KY jelly, a spring compressor (basically used as a thread), two bits of wood (to protect the bushing), and some aluminum strips to transfer the force from the center metal section of the bushing to the outer cage.



And here is is waiting for the trailing arms...

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Nice job. that sure is a pretty sub frame .
You will be amazed at the difference in the handling of the car. the rear end sure tightened up a bunch with new rubber.

It never ends, now you have to get the front tightened up to keep up with the rear.

Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Here are a few pictures of the sub frame before going on

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I'm a one man band so I had to find a way of getting everything back on in a way that I won't kill my self.

I reckon the best way to get the sub frame under the car is to take it down one side of the car and drag it under...

In order to do this you need to stick axle stands on the rear chassis rails close to where the rear brake line go from solids to flexible. I had previously positioned my axle stands under the jacking points - but they get in the way there - when you are fitting the sub frame.

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My method of getting the sub frame bolts into position was to slowly lift the three corners of the triangle of the sub frame so that it more or less reaches the mount positions.

I did this by lifting each corner and placing bricks or bits of wood underneath.

(I know bricks and wood are not ideal under cars but these components are not heavy enough to crush these bits - if you follow this method please make sure they don't slip as a differential falling on you is going to hurt!)

I managed to get the sub frame level enough to just lift the two corners with the mounts and calmly insert the main pins! (OK you need to push up a bit like you are trying to lift the car...)

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I've also worked out that it is better to fit the differential before sliding the sub frame under the car. I thought it might go on with the sub frame under the car - but I didn't really have enough space to get it to fit. May be it would be better if I had taller axle stands - but I don't...

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All has gone well so far (as you can see from the posts above) but I have a question.

The supporting plates that fit over the sub frame mounts (on a W123) fit snugly on top of the sub frame mount. However they do not align nicely with the holes on the under side of the car.

I guess I need to twist these steel plates into position and then fit the retaining M10 bolts.

When should I do this?

Should I twist the plates - and the mount - before or after tightening the main pins?

(Oh and does anyone know what ht e torque is for these bolts?)

I can't find the answer to these questions on older threads.