Thanks Zeke. I'll look 'em over.

I believe the mix has been reformulated, at least once. It's possible that these MSDS's are for an earlier blend. If you read the unusually install instructions you'll note that they are not consistent with a single-component HC refrigerant.

Even in '04 or so, R12 prices were not NEARLY as high as most shops wanted you to think.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Here's where I have a problem -

(Enviro-SafeTM Refrigerant contains a trade secret odor of 1%-5% unless otherwise noted.)

It's possible to have effective odorants in the ppm level. Theirs is is 1000 times more concentrated. This ~5% unidentified component (I think it is a halogenated HC) affects the physical properties of the mixture but cannot be identified.

It clearly is not pure propane. As the unusual install instructions are not consistent with pure propane. It's obviously a mixture, probably a an azeotrope, and some odd blend that wants some air in the system.

I was at at a car show swap meet a couple weeks ago, and a guy had 4 cans or R-12. wanted $20 a can.

I don`t remember what R-134 is at Walmart, but going up. Calif now has a core deposit of $10 a can, to be returned when the cans are returned.

They give you a 3 month time to return the cans for the refund. after that, TS.

they don`t want people to stock up and hord the stuff I guess, I did hear there is a plan to ban 134 because it is now discovered it too is bad for the enviroment. It never ends.


Charlie

__________________
there were three HP ratings on the OM616...

1) Not much power
2) Even less power
3) Not nearly enough power!! 240D w/auto

Anyone that thinks a 240D is slow drives too fast.

80 240D Naturally Exasperated, 4-Spd 388k DD 150mph spedo 3:58 Diff

We are advised to NOT judge ALL Muslims by the actions of a few lunatics, but we are encouraged to judge ALL gun owners by the actions of a few lunatics. Funny how that works

Hi regsatx

Did your indy vacuum the system before you put the 2 cans in?

Thanks

__________________

76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.

Seems like a few people have had great results using "Freeze-12". My AC repair planning on my 82 240d starts tomorrow and I AM NOT going to use R134a if I can help it!!
In my experiance I've converted 3 previous Benz to 134a with all the recommended new parts and all 3 were poor cooling here in Florida!

__________________

2006 Jetta TDI DSG 320k miles
1997 Ford F150 325k miles 4.2L V6 "Work Truck"
2008 Tundra 225k miles 5.7L
1982 240D.....sold
1984 300D...Totaled OUCH!
1985 300D Turbo 222k miles "Dos" sold to 79Mercy
1986 300SDL 98K miles "The Beater"....sold
1987 190E 2.3 16v Euro spec 115K miles....sold

Here's an idea! How about R12? It's not flammable, it cools, it makes the system last longer due to proper lubricant circulation and it's not a blend that has to be completely removed, evacuated and recharged whenever a leak is dealt with. Besides that in today's market it's relatively cheap.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Yeah, it seems to me if you've got a system thats still on r12, you might as well keep it that way until r12 actually becomes expensive. Those of us who bought converted vehicles face a different problem. I've been tempted to give one of these propane blends a try. Other than flammability, are there any other down sides?

Anyone think profit margins have anything to do with the sudden discovery of 134a being bad?

__________________
'82 300SD - Somewhere over 220k - Becoming reliable...

That's what I'm wanting Larry. It took me 3 cars to figure it out!! (I'm kinda slow! LOL)

__________________

2006 Jetta TDI DSG 320k miles
1997 Ford F150 325k miles 4.2L V6 "Work Truck"
2008 Tundra 225k miles 5.7L
1982 240D.....sold
1984 300D...Totaled OUCH!
1985 300D Turbo 222k miles "Dos" sold to 79Mercy
1986 300SDL 98K miles "The Beater"....sold
1987 190E 2.3 16v Euro spec 115K miles....sold

Unless a bad refrigerant/lubricant combination is in the system it is not necessarily worth a reverse conversion. Once there is a leak or other malady that needs attention, it is a relatively simple procedure to reverse convert. I've done several.

You simply, find and repair your leak or other problem that has required opening of the system. Flush all components of the system. Distribute the correct quantity of mineral or synthetic R12 compatible oil in the components as you reconnect. Install a new r/d as last step before closing system. Evacuate and charge with R12.

Hope this helps,
Larry

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Will PAG 100 work with R12 or R134a? I was wondering because I'm running a compressor designed for R12 but they are still used in the aftermarket for R134a.

It shipped with a label that said it was compatible with 12 or 134 and it had PAG 100 in it.

I'm running 134a and it's OK so far.

__________________
My occupational hazard bein'
my occupation's just not around...
1980 300SD
1980 300SD

No, PAG is NOT compatible with R12. Ester is compatible with both R12 and R134a. To reverse convert, you would need to thoroughly flush and change the r/d.

In the case of an R12 system that was converted using Ester, you can much more easily reverse convert.

__________________
2001 SLK 320 six speed manual
2014 Porsche Cayenne six speed manual

Annoy a Liberal, Read the Constitution

Yes he did. I had pretty much a full charge of R134a. BTW...This morning I had to make a trip approx 35 miles each way to a nearby town. First time I've made a highway drive with the Enviro-Safe stuff in my car. Outside temp was in the low 90s on the way home, cruising at 75 most of the time on I-10. Vent temp at one point went all the way down to 30º and possibly a hair below on low fan. Incredible!

Larry, How did you deal with the compressor itself when you reverse converted? My understanding is you are not to flush the compressor.....so how do you clean the residual oil out of there?

__________________

Current Mercedes
1979 maple yellow 240D 4-speed

Gone and fondly remembered:
1980 orient red 240D 4-speed

Gone and NOT fondly remembered:
1982 Chna Blue 300TD

Other car in the stable:
2013 VW Jetta Sportwagen TDI / 6-speed MT

Thanks regsatx

I have the same problem with my 88 560/300sd. Converted to 134a, doesn't work for s#$t. 100+ degree outside, 80 out of the vents.
I will do the same thing then you did, the AC in this car can't get any worse.

Thanks again

__________________

76 240 D. Bought in 1998 for $25.
85 300D. Got it for free with a bad engine. ( Sold )
60 Unimog 404. What was left of it, was given to me. Now powerd by 617A.
88 560 SEL. Bought without engine and trans. Now powerd by 617A.
67 250 SE. Cuope. For resto or sale.
64 220SE. For resto.