Please talk to me about the 190D - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Squabble · #1 11-24-2011, 12:54 PM

I've got a client/friend who is looking to purchase a 190D w201. He came to me because of my familiarity with Mercedes and diesels but I've never looked into the 190. Can someone outline the pros and cons of this vehicle for me? What should I be looking out for? Any known years to stay away from? How about US vs Euro versions, anything better than the other? I tried to suggest the 300D but he said he was under the impression the 190 got much better mileage and wouldn't rust as badly. Is this true? Is that a good enough reason to choose the w201 over the w123?

And, if anyone wants to sell one, I've got a buyer who's looking for a "nice" low mileage one, not a beater, rust free.

Thanks!

Stretch · #2 11-24-2011, 01:23 PM

I'm no expert but I was looking at this the other day

Mercedes-benz W201 Buyers Guide

Zacharias · #3 11-24-2011, 02:17 PM

One of the old lists I was on had a number of people who owned multiple 190Ds so I heard a fair amount of back and forth about them, including much from the legendary (in Mercedes list circles) Dr. Booth. One or two gentlemen put intergalactic mileages onto several through long highway commutes.

I myself have only driven one, briefly, a 2.6 gasser.

People who like 190Ds, seem to like them a lot. They are a more modern chassis than the w123, of course, and as such are a bit quieter and road manners are slightly more refined. I find the ride has a canoe-ish feel that I dislike.

More front legroom but probably less in the rear. I find they feel narrow inside for my tastes, but I am a big guy.

Fuel mileage will be a bit better but that depends on whether you are talking about the 2.2 or the 2.5. If memory serves the 2.2 with a manual trans is the mileage champion but these are rare.

If this customer has a wife, she will most likely prefer to be seen in the 190D over a 300D and it will feel slightly more nimble in city traffic.

That is my try at an unbiased snapshot. From my own point of view, there is nothing to recommend them over a w123. And a w124 is a much more competent vehicle overall.

bigblockchev · #4 11-24-2011, 05:10 PM

Rust is pretty much the same as any other mercedes, jackpoints door bottoms fender edges. go for a 190DT if you can find it they are much nicer to drive, 125 vs 90HP. 2.5D is slow 2.2D would be even slower. Automatics are problematic and expensive same as other vintage Merz. Standards are rare and desireable. . Window motors go frequently same as similar age Mercedes same as sunroofs. Manual seats with the additional front height adjustment knob are best this will give you a bit of knee room, if the power seats go they are quite difficult to fix and you are stuck with whatever position they are in, no way to override. Mechanicals are pretty much the same as 300D 's . One issue that I have noticed in my own vehicles is that the valve stem seals in the non turbo 190d go and the engine smokes blue. I have seen this reported by others as well so look for smoke. The turbo version does not seem to have this problem. Back seat is a bit small. The electrics on these cars do not age well same as the 300D. If you are buying for economy, don't. Buy the best mercedes diesel you can find or afford as it will cost less in the long run. Cheers Dan

04 Diesel · #5 11-24-2011, 06:33 PM

I have a 84 190D 2.2 and a 92 300D 2.5 turbo, I just rebuilt the motor on the 190D and it is not that slow. I drive the 190D everyday now and the mpgs are great, the only thing I wish, is the 190D had is another gear. I have a automatic and at 65 mph the rpms are about 3,500, but I still like it. One more gear would be perfect. The 92 300D is a different car, that car has by far a much better ride. The mpgs are good also, but the 300D is a much better built car.

chasinthesun · #6 11-24-2011, 08:27 PM

I made a list of pro and cons for both car models
190d 2.5 pros -easy on the mpg,seats outlive most 123s,newer styling,better designed rear suspention for handeling.

190d cons 2.5 -longevity less than a 617,more problems with fuel line issues,interior seats are 2 inches less in width but still comfortable,rubber o -rings off the injection pump,door window motors are more complicated .

300d pros- bigger ride, durable suspention parts,heavier linkage parts at the throttle and else were, no rubber o-rings at injection pump(except m pump-euro models),more boot space,more leg room from the steering wheel area,comfortable rear leg room in rear seating area,stronger in a collision,exceptional cornering for this year of model (independent rear).

300d cons -older they get the more oil it leaves,more engine mount replacement needed,more half shaft replacements needed,more oil cooler line replacements needed ,glove box woes,interior wood pieces woes,odometer reading woes, bumper rubber woes,rubber gaskets at frt and rear windshield woes.Ill note windows on this list but to cure most of these were simple a bad window switch.

Ive owned 4 190ds and 12 300ds 300cds ,300sds and 300tds in the past 9 yrs and the collective info Ive observed in reviving these old MB diesels from hitting the junkyards is its usually neglect of the upkeep on simple maintinence items that puts them off the road,mechanically their fine.FILTERS ,FUEL LINKAGE ,BRAKE SYSTEMS,FUEL SYSTEMS,SUSPENTION AND MOUNTS.Motors ive only toasted one ,it was on its way out and was replaced soon after siezing. Transmissions Ive had 2 problems ,1st was on a 190d ,the trannie wouldnt hit its hwy gear till warmed up ,flushed and replaced filters twice and cured it after a month of driving,2nd PROBLEM was a b2 piston which is dignosed by no forward gears working but reverse does allow movement.A $150 part gets you back on the road in that case.These are not hard cars to work on and Ive found that Im not needing a repair manual to figure a problem out after time.The most Ive ever paid for one of these cars Ive mentioned was $1200 for a 300cd some 4 yrs ago ,the cheapest $250,the maintenince cost to bring it back to an enjoyable ride was then considered and usually added another $300 -$500 for dependable ,solid transportation.Happy motoring with your choice .

ROLLGUY · #7 11-24-2011, 10:36 PM

I formerly owned a 190D 2.2 5 speed, and liked it a lot. It had 180,000 miles on it when I got it, and had nearly 300,000 miles on it when I sold it. As far as I know, it is still on the road today. I would hold out for the manual if you can, the automatic takes some of the power that the 2.2 is already lacking in. The 5 speed will get around 40 MPG with the 2.2. The 2.5 is much harder to find, but would be a bonus if you found a low mileage example.

t walgamuth · #8 11-25-2011, 05:29 AM

I drove a 190d with a five speed back when it was fairly new. I believe it was probably a 2.2. I am certain it was not a turbo.

Whoever says they are gutless I will have to ask compared to what?

I remember thinking it was a rocket compared to my 220D or whatever other car I was driving at the time.

I have always liked the looks of a 190 and will probably most likely own one someday. They are very hard to find now with the price of fuel.

Zacharias · #9 11-25-2011, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I remember thinking it was a rocket compared to my 220D or whatever other car I was driving at the time.

LOL from the comments I used to get from a guy in the States who drove a 220d for years, you could pretty much jog away from a stop sign faster than WOT in a 220d....

ds190 · #10 11-25-2011, 04:06 PM

I've owned both. Generally, the 300D gets less than 30mpg, and the 190D gets more than 30mpg.

The 300D is an E class vehicle- finish, chrome, sound proofing, weight, door thunk. The 190D is not- it was designed during the oil embargo to be a light, fuel efficient, still MB ride, but as an early model line vehicle, it has more plastic, thinner window glass, and not enough sound proofing. Every early 190 I have seen has rust around the jack points.

For winter driving, the 300D has valves that must be adjusted before it gets cold for reliable cold weather starting, and we always used a block heater below freezing. The 601 diesel in the 190D has self adjusting hydraulic valve tappets, and is a much easier cold weather start. Mine has a block heater, but I rarely need to use it.

The 300D with an all iron engine will not blow a headgasket, but the 190D 601 can because it has an aluminum head on an iron block. Typically, it blows between cylinder 1 and the timing chain cavity, so massive amounts of blue smoke spew out. That's happened to one of my two 190Ds.

I rec the 300D for looks and to be seen in. I rec the 190D for fuel efficiency and practicality and fun driving:-)