How do you 'undo' WVO effects? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Murkybenz · #16 02-12-2012, 02:17 PM

vegetableoildiesel.co.uk - Water Injection --- has cured my blowby..... IT IS sorted :-) - Powered by XMB

oldsinner111 · #17 02-12-2012, 02:24 PM

I just run mine on MMO and diesel every fillup.Blow by gone.

SpecialDelivery · #18 02-13-2012, 01:27 AM

please forgive my newbieish ignorance but what are you guys referring to when you say MMO and what is Kreen? I've got a friend with this metal treatment which bonds to the inside of the motor and is supposed to reduce dissolve all the varnish, fill in the little scratches, increase compression and reduce blowby...I'm waiting to check out my turbo and see if my timing chain needs to be redone before I treat my motor with it but would like to know what you're referring to

Desert Panther · #19 02-13-2012, 02:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpecialDelivery

please forgive my newbieish ignorance but what are you guys referring to when you say MMO and what is Kreen? I've got a friend with this metal treatment which bonds to the inside of the motor and is supposed to reduce dissolve all the varnish, fill in the little scratches, increase compression and reduce blowby...I'm waiting to check out my turbo and see if my timing chain needs to be redone before I treat my motor with it but would like to know what you're referring to

MMO = Marvel Mystery Oil
Kreen is a product made by Kano Labs, look at their website and/or Google search & it should answer your questions

lupin..the..3rd · #20 02-13-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeeman

I would take all the WVO tubing off and put it back to stock. There is nothing wrong with doing a WVO conversion as long as it is done right, this hasn't been.

Agreed. Too bad out of all the WVO conversions out there, only a very tiny percentage have been "done right". Most are hardware store hack jobs done on a shoestring budget by incompetent people, and it complete ruins the engine after only a few years. Not to mention to stench of rancid food oil.

ROLLGUY · #21 02-13-2012, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lupin..the..3rd

Not to mention to stench of rancid food oil.

Quite the contrary. The exhaust from burning WVO or biodiesel actually smells good! The smell is not unlike the smell in a kitchen at a fast food restaurant (especially around the deep fryer).

barry123400 · #22 02-13-2012, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpecialDelivery

please forgive my newbieish ignorance but what are you guys referring to when you say MMO and what is Kreen? I've got a friend with this metal treatment which bonds to the inside of the motor and is supposed to reduce dissolve all the varnish, fill in the little scratches, increase compression and reduce blowby...I'm waiting to check out my turbo and see if my timing chain needs to be redone before I treat my motor with it but would like to know what you're referring to

There are a lot of products sold out there that have well earnt the classification of being snake oils. With the problem talked about on this thread the issue is unburnt residue from burning vegatable oil accumulating in the ring lands.

Turns in to a glue like substance or displays the charactristics of thick uncured glue.. The piston rings get fixed in place.Or no longer flex enough to seal the cylinders well.

A snake oil is usually easy to identify. The price is high as by and large as there will be no repeat sales to customers. The claims are an indicator as well. They usually make impossible claims to do everything well including song and dance routines.

As long as it is just a gummy or sticky residue there may be no lasting damage and a solvent or steam cleanout probably works most of the time. Once the gummy stuff has hardened totally or carbonized there may be a risk of scratching up the cylinder walls or breaking rings. You need solvents to dissolve it before that point is reached.

I do not and expect I will not ever be burning waste vegatable oil. If I ever did one opinion I have developed is to clean out the ring lands well before putting one of those engines into storage or any fairly long non use situation. I suspect in storage the glue type reside may for all practical purposes totall cure long term in an inactive engine. If that happens the risks of really serious issues may be possible.

Normal petoleum fuel oil and the lubricating base oil do not seem to touch the stuff. I do not know if synthetic oil use helps keep it down or not.

MMO is perhaps the cheapest way to keep it at bay. All it really represents is a cheap solvent that does work on vegatable oil residue and carbon perhaps to some extent.

If the engine will still run I suspect the best way to attack this problem is by adding MMO to the base oil and putting a quart into the fuel tank. With every fillup until the problem goes away. It should also aid in cleaning out vegatable fats etc that may have accumulated in the fuel system over time. Really serious cases will take more intense approaches sometimes.

The soaking down with MMO is for engines that have lost so much compression they will not even start.

PackerEdgerton · #23 02-13-2012, 07:12 PM

Thank you guys for all the analysis and helpful hints. I do really appreciate them.

Here's the update:

1) Drained oil + Kreen after 200 miles
2) Refill with oil + MMO
3) Filled tank with B50 (50/50 mix of #2 diesel and 100% biodiesel)
4) Did Italian tune for three hours on Saturday, running vehicle at 55MPH in 3rd gear on the freeway. This runs the engine near max RPM, but not over (according to the speedo)
5) Adjusted valves. All but two were tight.
6) Ran Water Mist Injection (WMI) using 1 quart of water.

How I did the WMI: Using a pressurized sprayer with 1 quart of water at 120 PSI. The sprayer is all-metal and has a schraeder valve so you can pressurize it from your compressor. This results in a very fine mist of water. I popped the hood, and I did it with no load, just in the driveway with the air cleaner off, and the engine running at approx 2000-3000 RPM. There was a fair amount of steam coming out the back, and after about 10 minutes, I had used up all the water. (I did wear hearing protection... it was kinda loud) I ran the vehicle on the main road for another 10 minutes after all the water was used up, and came back home. Results: Running smoother and idling smoother.

Still plenty of blowby, but the vehicle seems to be running well.

My diagnosis: The engine is tired, and probably has more mileage than the odometer indicates.

Startups have a cloud of oily smoke that clears quickly, and after the car is warmed up, there is no more smoke at all. I still suspect valve stem seals.

By the way, when I did the valve adjustment I noted that the valves, timing chain and everything under the valve covers looks GREAT.

There is probably plenty of more varnish and carbon in the cylinders, but I am reasonably sure that the combination of all the steps above has resulted in a much cleaner and smoother and more powerfully-running engine.

Thank you for all the tips.

Sincerely,

PE

sixto · #24 02-13-2012, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerEdgerton

By the way, when I did the valve adjustment I noted that the valves, timing chain and everything under the valve covers looks GREAT.

With Kreen and MMO I would hope so

Sixto
87 300D

Biodiesel300TD · #25 02-13-2012, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PackerEdgerton

Startups have a cloud of oily smoke that clears quickly, and after the car is warmed up, there is no more smoke at all. I still suspect valve stem seals.

That sounds like valve stem seals for sure. Drive it for a bit though, you might find that it starts to clear up some as things get cleaned and moving again.

winmutt · #26 02-13-2012, 08:30 PM

Injection timing?

zeeman · #27 02-14-2012, 02:52 AM

Sounds like your on the right track. This is a good example of what a poorly installed WVO system can do to an engine. Some other things you can check is the timing chain stretch 3 degees or less, as mentioned IP pump timing and compression. Adjusting the valves should help a lot especially if they were tight. If compression is good you might change the valve seals (Mercedesourse) has a nice kit to do this. Also check the turbo to make sure the seals are not leaking oil into the intake.

FYI I have a customer that has a 1999 cummins truck that just turned 500,000 and has run on WVO for most of that time. He buys his WVO from me that I process, he just had the engine overhauled and the ring lands and cyclinders were in excellent condition for the mileage, no coking.

Desert Panther · #28 02-14-2012, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zeeman

FYI I have a customer that has a 1999 cummins truck that just turned 500,000 and has run on WVO for most of that time. He buys his WVO from me that I process, he just had the engine overhauled and the ring lands and cyclinders were in excellent condition for the mileage, no coking.

Why'd the Cummins need an engine overhaul at only 500k miles?!?!?!

I have 4 friends with cummins well over that mileage, including one fellow with nearly 800k & the motors havent needed rebuilding.

thatguyinky · #29 02-14-2012, 07:06 AM

I used WVO in the last Mercedes, 83 300SD, I had and never seen any build up. Actually the opposite happened. All the black crud from years of diesel fuel was cleaned up within a 2000-3000 miles or so of starting on WVO. The engine cranked over better (which made it start easier), stopped smoking on start up, had more power, etc. The car was falling apart around the engine and tranny so I ended up scrapping it (bad idea, could have used lots of parts for the new Merc!) When I did that I had to remove the tank and cut a 12" hole in it. I cut the thing in half and the inside of it looked brand new! If you've ever seen the inside of an old diesel fuel tank you know that's not how they normally look (obviously depends on maintenance.) I tore lots of parts off that car to resell and everything fuel related was much cleaner.

With that info, WVO can be very harmful. I went to great lengths to make sure the WVO was the very best I could find. I filtered that stuff way more than most people recommend and tested samples in the frig (or freezer) to see how much stuff froze. WVO from a Thankgiving turkey never passed, only WVO that was changed out frequently (mostly oriental restaurants) and places that didn't cook much animal products which resulted in a lot more fat in the oil (not good.) All the other WVO needs to be processed to much greater lengths to get rid of water and fats, something I did not have the time nor the funds to accomplish so I went for the highest quality I could find. I also added Kerosene and an cetane booster. The ratio's depended on the weather. I also kept up on the maintenance of the vehicle.

With that information there is a good chance that WVO will harm an engine if the neccessary steps aren't taken. Using WVO with too much water and/or fats, improper filtering, neglecting maintenance (that's given no matter what fuel is used), letting the car sit long periods with bad WVO in it, and the list goes on. The fuel I made could sit in a container for months and never change color or have anything growing in it. I've got another Merc that I'm currently not running WVO through because I haven't found a good enough source of WVO that I trust putting in my tank.

Oh, and I used the stock tank on the car with no heaters, valves or anything of that nature. Only thing I did was change out some fuel lines and replaced about 12 fuel filters (6 primary, 6 secondary) with the first 3-4k miles.

vstech · #30 02-14-2012, 08:24 AM

... hmmm