I noticed some rust stains on underside of rocker panel near access plug that is just aft of the front jack point driver side.

No big deal, I touched it up with POR. But when under car for another reason, I could see rust inside the rocker.

But not sure what that rusty piece is? I seem to recall that on some cars there were baffles in there to direct drains from sunroof or something??

I will probably just try and get some POR in there and then have car rust treated (which will include spraying Krown or Rustcheck inside the rockers).

Anyone know what it is I can see inside that hole?

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

This is your W123?

It looks like it but I thought I'd check... I think that that's the floor pan. Lift up the carpets and remove the sound insulation to see the extent of the damage.

Some where like the front windshield or the pockets into which the bonnet hinges retract will be leaking. Water falls down into the footwell(s) and flows along the floor pan (trapped) between the sound insulation, the floor pan, and that wonderfull rubberised MB undercoating that makes sure it all stays there until the metal has rotted away.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Yes it is the 85 300D.

That rusted piece is inside the rocker panel. Do the floor pans come down in there?

I will have a look from inside soon.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

This thread has grown and grown but if you skip through it you'll see how the underside is constructed.

http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/body-repair-restoration/303669-my-w123-saloon-sedan-old-accident-repair-bit-rust-repair-thread.html

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

You were of course right - The floorpan is rusted quite badly on the outer edge.

To really see the extent, I need to remove the soundproofing. It is in good condition. Is there a way of getting it off without destroying it?

This job started off with me fixing a small rust spot on a rear wheel arch (now completed). Then I took the wheel off

- rust in driver side wheel well at rubber buffers
- rust near torsion bar mounts
- old fibreglass repairs on passenger side in same areas
- some perforation from driver side trunk (repaired)
- rust patch on passenger side rocker panel (repaired)
- stone chips below headlights (repaired)
- surface rust on driver side rocker panel around one access plug
which led me to the current problem

I guess I should dig a bit further and see how bad the floor pan corrosion is.

Given this is not a car that I really need to get around, perhaps I should sell it as-is. It has an engine that has done 100k km and exterior and interior looks great. (Repainted 5yrs ago). A couple of local shops have expressed an interest. What should I ask if I go this route?


Some pics. Water clearly dripped down from speedo cable bracket.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I don't think it is possible to remove the sound proofing intact - well not in my climate - it needs to be really warm for it to come off in larger pieces. Even then I reckon you'd just get some stubborn bits. I used a blow torch to remove mine, though I've been informed on BW that a decent hot air gun works too. In both cases wear a decent mask.

The sound insulation is available at the dealer but again it needs to be warm to be applied. Not a nice easy job in my opinion...

...I can see myself and others getting really frustrated with the stuff.

That rust looks worse than the rust in my car - I think you might be shocked at how little steel is left down there.

I can't really comment on values as most things here cost way more than they do where you are!

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

I will give teh hot air gun a shot. I do remember getting the SP off on my SL, but I don't think it was glued down.

Thanks

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I got part of sound proofing off with hot air gun and scraper. Enough to expose most of rust. Pics below. The last one shows the hole through which I first saw the floor pan rust. Middle one is back end near crossbeam.

Not sure I want to pay someone to do the rear wheel wells and the floor pans. Probably around $3k if we don't unearth anything else.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Any interest in learning how to weld?

You can buy a MIG from Canadian Tire for about $400 (they go on sale a few times a year) and do the floor sections.

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Mac
2002 e320 4matic estate│1985 300d│1980 300td
Previous: 1979 & 1982 & 1983 300sd │ 1982 240d

“Let's take a drive into the middle of nowhere with a packet of Marlboro lights and talk about our lives.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

It is something I always wanted to learn. Way back, I did learn how to braze. I also had access to a electric spot welder at one time and made a few things using that.

But getting on in years, so this job is probably more than I would want to tackle. At $50/hr I think it would make better sense to use the restoration shop I found.

Had thought about doing a mechanical repair with HD S/S pop rivets (I do have a HD gun) along with a bit of epoxy/glass and POR. I could probably do a half decent job and extend life of car a few years. I will discuss this with the my welding guy.

But leaning toward trying to off-loading car as-is at a fair price considering it's condition. Maybe a young guy with more energy than I have could turn it back into a great car. Engine/transmissions etc are good.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Well at least you've found someone who will do it for a more resonable amount. I'm not being sarcastic. When I was faced with the damage shown in the thread I posted a few posts ago I shopped around for a body shop and the lowest price was about 10000 euros (yes there are 4 zeros after that one!). Nobody really wanted to do the work. That's why I've been learning how to weld.

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

You are right - I was lucky to find this guy, and he wants to do the work. He says the floor pan can easily be patched (but he has only seen the pics.

I have a question for you (as THE expert on 123 rust repairs!).

The section of floor pan between the underfloor structural beam and the door sill is lower than the main floor (probably why it rusted out.) That area has very little metal left. The lower part of the sill has also rusted away.

If we want to patch the floor rather than replace it, is there any need to recreate that depression? There are cables & tubes that run along there. They have a black cover that they run through.

I found that we can buy the Klokkerholm panels here Maybe that is the way to go?

Maybe that is a better way to go, even we cut it up and use it as a patch.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Well, I think we have made decision to have shop do the repairs. We went over car today, and everything else is solid. Shop will try and keep costs below $2000. I will do some prep work and if hours start to get too high, I will do finishing work too.

I advertised car for $1200 and had several buyers for car within a day! Had to take add off after 24hrs! Seeing I don't really need this car, I should have probably asked a bit more and sold it!

I will try and post some pictures of the repairs.

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

I had a second guy who offered to buy at $1500. I should have accepted.

Today, I almost completed stripping the floor pans and part of the footwell/firewall covering where repairs are needed. While doing this, I chhecked the area along the outside edge of teh firewall. Driver side OK - just needs some touchup with POR. But on passenger side, there is serious rust at the corner where interior panel (that EGR mounts on) joins the firewall. Looking at this, it seems it is behind the plastic wheel well liner that my 85 has.

Looks like a couple of inches each side of teh join should be replaced. WElder will know, but does anyone here know whether this can be repaired withour removing fender?

Fenders are relatively new. Any big deal to take them off to gain access?

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Graham
85 300D,72 350SL, 98 E320, Outback 2.5

Remember rocker panels are structural and fourteen gauge I believe. You have type three rust. That is the most serious variation of rusting we see. All the metal in the vicinity may be just reduced to iron oxide on some cars. A screwdriver penatrates it easily.

You have to probe around pretty seriously to locate where the really intact metal starts again. On the vertical surfaces it is pretty obvious. Sometimes you get a suprise and sometimes not on the more horizontal areas.

Can you cure of stop serious rusting? Generally not practical. But you can restore the integrity where needed and soak the areas with an oil grease mixture.

Nothing really stops the rust advancing but that type of petroleum application really reduces the rate of it more than substantially. Does a better job of blocking the oxygen from the metal than anything else I know of.
So the rate of oxidation in the future is seriously reduced by it.

Americans from the bible belt south probably have no ideal of what serious rust can look like up here in Canada. I hate using the anology of cancer but it is simular. You either have it in a spot and it is repairable. Or it is pretty well rampent throughout the lower body.

You are also lucky to find a person to work on it. Local body shops here on the east coast of Canada in general will not touch serious rust anymore. It amounts to restoration work to do it properly. It may be cheaper and better in some cases to get a car from the south of the states and swap things into it. Then totally rustproof it by the method I suggest. Thats especially if the car is to winter driven at all to preserve it. We even have a hydralic grease gun designed to spray a purchased product called grease and graphite into most areas. Air pressure drives a pump that produces 3,500 pounds of hydralic pressure to spray the grease. Inside closed rocker panels etc.