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  #46  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:41 PM
t walgamuth's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Lafayette Indiana
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I've read this thread through and come back to this. It ran fine all the way from california so it must have some compression. Its colder where you are now and it won't start. it may have been starting fine where its warm without glow plugs.

I am not convinced that your glow plugs are working.

I am not convinced you don't have plugged fuel filters.

I would say with strong conviction to not touch the injection pump.

I would also say with strong conviction not to let that fellow try to "ring it".

Someone knowledgeable in mercedes automotive diesels can help you figure it out.

I'd remove all doubt about the glow plug function.

I'd change the fuel filters, and air filter and the oil.

I'd then pull it to get it started.

A compression test would be good too.
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  #47  
Old 01-13-2013, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I've read this thread through and come back to this. It ran fine all the way from california so it must have some compression. Its colder where you are now and it won't start. it may have been starting fine where its warm without glow plugs.

I am not convinced that your glow plugs are working.

I am not convinced you don't have plugged fuel filters.

I would say with strong conviction to not touch the injection pump.

I would also say with strong conviction not to let that fellow try to "ring it".

Someone knowledgeable in mercedes automotive diesels can help you figure it out.

I'd remove all doubt about the glow plug function.

I'd change the fuel filters, and air filter and the oil.

I'd then pull it to get it started.

A compression test would be good too.
I really don't want to put more cash out on this girl, unless someone can pin point the exact problem.

I can tell you the air filter is clean and pure white.

Fuel system included a new clean tank, strainer, float, all new lines, steamed out hard lines, new injectors, used and cleaned IP.

So there is nothing there to cause the filters to plug, the clear filter also has no particles nor anything in it.

I have the glows out and can install the new set but I doubt it will help.

Oil was just changed out to synthetic 5w-30.

Remember too that the engine won't pop off with ether and you don't need glows nor fuel for that to explode.

Also all the white smoke is a sign of the compression escaping.

I also want to believe that it will run again, but I don't thing I can get her to run until temps rise above 70....

Even when she was running, she had a good amount of blow by...
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  #48  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chasinthesun View Post
Put some MMO in the holes for 3 days to soak ,leave open with injectors and heat shields out to purge the MMO OUT of the cylinders While cranking.(messy business without rags).
This car was run on WVO. If the rings are polymerized from the WVO, there is nothing that will work with the pistons in place.

I've been to this dance. Marvel Mystery Oil, varsol, Coke (when you get desperate, you'll give anything a shot) all tried, nada. That was many years ago, when people were just discovering the polymerization issue (depending on cirumstances, motors may run many years on WVO before it becomes an issue).

I really think the compression test is the next step right now.

Not meaning offense: but is it possible, just possible, you did the valve adjustment backwards (used the exhaust setting for intake and vice versa)? I managed to do that the second time I did the job....
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  #49  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:50 PM
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Location: War Eagle Arkansas
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NAPA sells a compression tester adapter for around $20. Dont quote me. I am pretty sure this isnt your last Benz, so consider this an investment. A cheapo compression tester for gas engines will work, but you need to swap out the gauge to something with at least 500 psi capacity, 750 would be better. You will also need to change the schrader valve in the tester for one for semi's, a high pressure one. NAPA will have the gauge and valve you need, you can buy the cheapo tester at Orielly. Make sure the cylinder is clear before the test by cranking the engine a few revs with all the injectors removed. 5 thumps of the gauge should be more than enough to tell you what its producing. My guess is its well under 300 psi.

MMO works pretty good on light carbon deposits, but beyond that nothing short of a tear down is going to loosen rings once their stuck real good, if that is in fact your problem. If ether killed it, MMO wont fix that either.
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  #50  
Old 01-13-2013, 11:54 PM
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If there's smoke coming out of the oil fill cap when the engine is being turned by the starter, a gasoline engine compression tester may be up to the job of confirming low compression.
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  #51  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:20 AM
Registered Hack
 
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I read most of this thread. I have a good suggestion based on experience and inference.

Getting your hands on a spare IP would be ideal. Swap it out.

Since you don't seem to have that option, I am going to suggest that you advance the timing of the pump in a very rudimentary manner counter to what many will suggest is appropriate. The reason many of us drive these cars is because we have enough know-how to keep them running and get by with some ingenuity. Here, I think WVO has caused early wear on your pump elements causing fuel to be injected very late and at a decreased amount.

mark the position of the IP to the block with some kind of scraping tool or paint marker.

loosen the injector lines (or remove them)

loosen the IP (4 bolts total: 3 on the flange, one on the rear bottom near oil filter house)

twist the pump so that the top gets closer to the injectors. Try a small increment first like 3mm maximum. Now, when I say 3mm, this means that the mark you made on the IP should move away from the one on the block by 3mm.

tighten IP bolts

attach hard lines and bend back into shape. Do not tighten them at the injectors yet, leave them 1 turn loose from snug.

purge the lines by cranking the engine with the pedal completely depressed (awww.. sad pedal...)

Tighten lines up.

Pray. At least ten hail maries.

promise not to ridicule me if this does not work.

try again another 2-3mm in the same fashion

good luck!
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Last edited by jt20; 01-14-2013 at 12:28 AM. Reason: tpyo
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:28 AM
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The IP was replaced with one from a 300d that ran only diesel. So I doubt the elements are clogged, since I have only ran clean diesel in it.
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2013, 12:33 AM
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Not clogged... worn.

How was this other pump stored?
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
One more thing, I should add. I removed the oil fil cap, to see if that would help the cranking....wihen you crank the engine with the cap off.....it has a steady thick cloud of white smoke coming out...like a chimney....

how fast is that cloud moving? does it come out in bursts or kinda creep out like a smoldering cigarette?
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  #55  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
well did the oil change, rechecked glow plugs....replaced the starter....tried to use wd40 and ether....still will not pop off....she cranks a LOT better then she did....I get white smoke out of the rear so shes getting fuel but the engine just wont catch....I'm at a loss of what to do next.....

white smoke only means the fuel is partially burnt. Just cuz you're getting fuel does not mean you will start.... even with good compression.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljjay View Post
I suppose the IP needs to be removed, lined up and reinstalled correct? Also am I correct in thinking this has nothing to do with the no starting?
You have not told us what you've done to the IP thus far. But its always best to re-install it properly if there is doubt and you are familiar with the procedure.

As for the 'no-drip' condition, did you follow some MB procedure to measure the drip? (ie..remove delivery valve etc..)

It is incorrect to believe that IP timing has nothing to do with poor timing. If you truly believe in the condition of this pump as being verifiable, then install it at the factory recommended 24* BTDC.
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
You have not told us what you've done to the IP thus far. But its always best to re-install it properly if there is doubt and you are familiar with the procedure.

As for the 'no-drip' condition, did you follow some MB procedure to measure the drip? (ie..remove delivery valve etc..)

It is incorrect to believe that IP timing has nothing to do with poor timing. If you truly believe in the condition of this pump as being verifiable, then install it at the factory recommended 24* BTDC.
well the car made the trip, with the IP in the current position. After I gave up everything else, I set the timing to 24btdc cams pointing up...unscrewed the lines....removed the element/valve...installed the drip tube....wouldn't drip spray...loosened the pump....still nothing....let go of the throttle....and it dripped....get pee'd reinstalled everything and posted here...I never removed the IP off the engine...figured it ran and started in the current location so why waste the knuckles pulling it out.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jt20 View Post
how fast is that cloud moving? does it come out in bursts or kinda creep out like a smoldering cigarette?
Well it was coming out thick and steady....enough smoke to make a cloud drift across the street....ever see a train bellowing smoke? That's what it looked like.
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2013, 01:55 AM
Registered Hack
 
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In this case, even if the pump is perfect, it is best to err on the side of early delivery for more combustion time.

I still think its in your best interest to bump the timing up a smidge. But you are correct. It there as is... why mess with it.... Personally, I had a pump go 'bad' within a matter of hours after starting just fine. White smoke out the back, advancing it helped a few more times, then nada... no amount of cranking WOT would start it. On the other side, I had an engine with broken rings and lands, scored cylinder walls and stuck rings start just fine and smoke the whole way.

I do not come here often and may not check in for a while. Feel free to PM me so I get an email and know to check in. I'd love to see you get this running. Good luck.
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  #60  
Old 01-14-2013, 10:44 AM
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I think that, plain and simply, you have low compression.
These are some of your options to swap in a used engine.
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