Gen. II-616/ 617 Sanden style A/C Compressor Mounting Kit For Sale + Install Inst. - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #1 06-15-2013, 04:55 PM

For all of you who have purchased a Gen II kit, I have another update. I am planning on making another bracket to help secure the bottom of the compressor mounting plate. It will mount using longer bolts in 3 of the pan bolt holes, and nuts on the top. Another hole (1/2") is drilled in the compressor mounting plate .625 from each edge. Here is a look at the prototype:

Location of drilled hole:

The bracket is needed more for the 616 application, but I have prototypes made for both the 616 & 617 turbo (they are different). I am not sure if the 617 N/A has the same lower pan as the turbo. If it is different, I will need to make a third bracket. From now on, all of the plates will have the hole drilled in them, and the bracket should be available shortly. If you have a plate already installed, it is possible to drill the hole without removing the compressor. I will post here when the brackets are available, and send them to those that have already purchased a kit....Rich

DeliveryValve · #2 06-15-2013, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

For all of you who have purchased a Gen II kit, I have another update. I am planning on making another bracket to help secure the bottom of the compressor mounting plate. It will mount using longer bolts in 3 of the pan bolt holes, and nuts on the top. Another hole (1/2") is drilled in the compressor mounting plate .625 from each edge. Here is a look at the prototype:

Location of drilled hole:

The bracket is needed more for the 616 application, but I have prototypes made for both the 616 & 617 turbo (they are different). I am not sure if the 617 N/A has the same lower pan as the turbo. If it is different, I will need to make a third bracket. From now on, all of the plates will have the hole drilled in them, and the bracket should be available shortly. If you have a plate already installed, it is possible to drill the hole without removing the compressor. I will post here when the brackets are available, and send them to those that have already purchased a kit....Rich

What's the issue you are having with the plate? Vibrations? Plate flexing? Does the Gen 1 have the same issue?

.

ROLLGUY · #3 06-15-2013, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeliveryValve

What's the issue you are having with the plate? Vibrations? Plate flexing? Does the Gen 1 have the same issue?

.

I have not heard from anyone about any problem, but I found that on my 240 the belt was chirping regardless of how tight it was. There is less support on the lower part of the plate on a 616, so this new bracket fixed the problem. All of the 617 applications I have done have not had any problems. It may be that the piece of the block that sticks out just above the upper pan on a 617 offers more support. I am making brackets for both anyway, and drilling all the plates, not knowing what engine they will go on. I don't think the bracket will work on the Gen 1 plate, as the bolt would be right where the compressor mounting tab is. However, the new bracket could be welded in place for the Gen 1 applications if needed.....Rich

BillGrissom · #4 06-17-2013, 05:28 PM

Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.

ROLLGUY · #5 06-17-2013, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.

Like I said, the 617 applications have not had any problems. The plate does not touch the upper pan at all, but rather may touch the casting that sticks out just above the upper pan. Either way, a 617 lower bracket is in the works and when they are finished, one will be sent to all that have purchased a Gen 2 kit. One will also become part of future kits sold. If you have a gen 1 kit, the bracket will still work, but it will need to be welded in place. It should be fairly easy to do for someone that can weld overhead.....Rich

mach4 · #6 06-17-2013, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Rich,
I really appreciate your being pro-active on all these issues. This new bracket concerns me if it could crack the upper oil pan, since steel often wins against cast aluminum. I know M-B hung other things off that lip, like the high-pressure AC hose (seems silly), but it would be a major pain to deal with a crack there (must remove engine).

I haven't installed your compressor bracket yet since my son hasn't returned with the car. I may look into welding a stiffener down the front of the plate instead, or maybe adding a rubber snubber that presses against the block to damp vibrations. I would rather risk the compressor plate than my upper oil pan.

I'd like to offer up my solution to the issue of extra support for the compressor.

As I analyzed the problem, I was very concerned about the amount of the bracket that was cantilevered and the amount of stress and vibration that was present. I don't have the capability to do finite element analysis or anything other than "back-of-the-napkin" engineering, so I can't speak definitively. I also had a problem in that, I couldn't use the bottom adjusting solution because of space so I had to develop a belt adjusting strategy that could be accomplished from above. In fact I had to cut the bottom two inches of the bracket off. (My 617 is in a 107 chassis, so I have extremely limited space to work with.)

My solution is to tie the outboard ear on the Sanden to the lower P/S bolt like this: ( I apologize for the picture - it was taken during mock up with my junk compressor and temp rods for mounting )

The adjusting rod is a 1/2" tube with heim joints on either end. I used a long 1/2" bolt with sleeves to keep the lower heim joint at the proper 90 degree position relative to the compressor. I needed to use a longer bolt on the P/S pump due to the additional width of the heim joint. The adjuster nut in the middle makes adjusting a snap using a crows foot wrench. Also, using this strategy puts the adjustment components in tension rather than compression.

This provides a pretty substantial triangulation which is illustrated in the following

If I were using an unmodified GenII bracket, I'd supplement the support using this strategy. The adjustment procedure would be as follows - double-check the tension on the P/S belt; loosen the bottom adjuster on the GenII bracket; adjust the A/C belt tension with the adjuster rod; snug up the bottom adjuster as backup.

I've got over 5k miles on the setup and the only problem has been keeping the belt in adjustment. (I think this is mainly due to belt stretch due to using a cheap belt - my bad!).

ROLLGUY · #7 06-17-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach4

If I were using an unmodified GenII bracket, I'd supplement the support using this strategy. The adjustment procedure would be as follows - double-check the tension on the P/S belt; loosen the bottom adjuster on the GenII bracket; adjust the A/C belt tension with the adjuster rod; snug up the bottom adjuster as backup.

I've got over 5k miles on the setup and the only problem has been keeping the belt in adjustment. (I think this is mainly due to belt stretch due to using a cheap belt - my bad!).

I know that you had no choice but to to it this way, and I commend you for being able to accomplish it. For the normal 123, 126, 116 applications, there are hoses and a bracket in the way of where the adjusting rod would be. The lower support bracket I am making is much more simple, and gives the support where it is needed. The belt wants to pull the compressor toward the crank, so supporting the bottom of the compressor mounting will solve that problem directly. I am willing to absorb the cost of this added bracket if not just for peace of mind. It may cost upwards of $5 each to produce (they will be cad plated), but I think it will become a necessity in the long run. I know the 616 will benefit from the extra support, but again, the 617 kits will get one as well.....Rich

mach4 · #8 06-17-2013, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I know that you had no choice but to to it this way, and I commend you for being able to accomplish it. For the normal 123, 126, 116 applications, there are hoses and a bracket in the way of where the adjusting rod would be.

Good point. I should have stipulated that I did some significant modifications to the oil line support bracket in order to support the modified oil cooler lines I used.

It's been so long since I did the oil cooler line mod, I forget how the original lines ran. And I should also state that I'm using an oil filter and lines off an SD (126) that may put the lines in a different relative position.

I think the point I was trying to make is, that if someone wants to try to add some top support, the solution I found is one that works. And if they've got the fab skills to weld up an adjuster rod, moving the cooler lines an inch or two and modifying the support bracket should be within reach.

ROLLGUY · #9 09-20-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

For all of you who have purchased a Gen II kit, I have another update. I am planning on making another bracket to help secure the bottom of the compressor mounting plate. It will mount using longer bolts in 3 of the pan bolt holes, and nuts on the top. Another hole (1/2") is drilled in the compressor mounting plate .625 from each edge. Here is a look at the prototype:

Location of drilled hole:

The bracket is needed more for the 616 application, but I have prototypes made for both the 616 & 617 turbo (they are different). I am not sure if the 617 N/A has the same lower pan as the turbo. If it is different, I will need to make a third bracket. From now on, all of the plates will have the hole drilled in them, and the bracket should be available shortly. If you have a plate already installed, it is possible to drill the hole without removing the compressor. I will post here when the brackets are available, and send them to those that have already purchased a kit....Rich

I finally got all the brackets made (along with the parts for 30 more kits), and have them ready to send for plating:

When I get them back, I will make up the kits and have them available (I will start a new thread).....Rich

ROLLGUY · #10 10-04-2013, 12:32 AM

I went to the fab shop today to pick up the rest of the parts (plates and tabs). I snatched a photo of the last of the plates being cut:

The new design incorporates slots in the plate so the tabs are welded on the back (photo posted when I get one ready). I am calling it Gen 2.1....Rich