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  #1  
Old 07-06-2013, 03:32 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29
300 TD Transmission questions

I recently had to change the engine ( and I kept the tranny attached when I pulled it on of my TD wagons. I had a spare engine from a previous parts car that I finally junked. I'm a little mixed up and can't remember for sure, but I think that I tried to use the tranny that I pulled with my damaged engine rather than use the old one that had been sitting around gathering dust and drying out for several years.

I am a DIY but do my own mechanic work due to the fact that I live on a very small Island with no mechanic that really has any experience working on Mercedes and due to a small cash flow. This was my first attempt at swapping an engine. Everything seemed to go ok but I do remember that my friend who was helping me and I had a hard time mating the tranny and engine together.

I should say at this point that when I pulled both the engine from the parts car and the damaged engine from my driver I was not aware that I should have removed the bolts holding the torque converter to the flywheel and so they both stayed with the engine ...

the engine went in ok and everything worked ok for about a week. Then suddenly it wouldn't engage in any gear when I tried to move the shifter.

I did have some trouble getting the engine and tranny to mate together and somebody told me that I probably cracked the gear on the tranny oil pump and that this is causing the current situation.

This whole downward spiral among other things is bumming me out an making me depressed.

HELP !!!

1) does this sound like the reasonable/probable diagnosis?
a) are there things I can check to confirm this prior to pulling the tranny
and tearing into it?

2) how hard/ complicated is it to replace the pump on one of these
trannies for a low/moderate level DIY like me ?

3) Where is the model number of the tranny located? I have spent literally several hours hunting for it and have even reached the point of disconnecting the drive shaft and dropping the tranny down part way to try to find it. Since I am confused about which tranny I put in, I am not even sure what year car it came from. ( I do know that the engine does not match with the wiring harness on the car but I assume that this is not the problem since everything worked ok for a week... ??? )

I have considered biting the bullet and selling my second child and ordering a rebuilt tranny from Sun Valley ( I hear that they are really
good ) for $1800.00 including shipping but they want all the model numbers and I can't find the one for the tranny and once I heard the oil pump theory I figured maybe I should check that out before springing for a rebuilt with money I don't really have sitting around extra.

Any Advice would be warmly appreciated. Any information on what I would need for parts, where to get them and/or instructions would be helpful as well as insight on how complicated this is would be awesome. I still have this other 'spare ' tranny so I thought I might be able to rob the oil pump off of it. Would love thoughts about the wisdom of this as well. I assume I would need to get a gasket kit. Also wanted suggestions about anything else in terms of preventative maintenance I might be able to do at my skill level while I hypothetically have the tranny opened up.

And if there is anyone with a higher skill / experience level that wants to come to Hawaii and stay in our vacation apartment as a barter while showing and helping me how to do the job private message me and maybe we can work something out as well...

Thanks so much in advance!

With Aloha I humbly bow before the transmission gods.

Levie Yamazaki-Gray,
Moloka'i Hawaii
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  #2  
Old 07-06-2013, 04:25 PM
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Posts: 18,354
Pull one of the tranny cooler lines and start the engine, if it pumps fluid the pump is working. If it doesn't pump fluid, something's wrong with the pump.
Report back.

Will that count towards one day's stay in your vacation apt?
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #3  
Old 07-06-2013, 09:02 PM
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Posts: 29
I guess I forgot to mention that. I already disconnected one of the cooler lines and nothing comes out when the engine is running.( I also checked and there is oil showing on the dipstick.)

I also finally found the model # 722 315 02.
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  #4  
Old 07-07-2013, 01:28 AM
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Posts: 18,354
Then the pump isn't pumping.
__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13
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  #5  
Old 07-07-2013, 02:29 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
Posts: 14,158
I'm glad you found the transmission type number - that helps us a lot.

Here's a DIY showing you how to reseal the front pump

722.315 Pump Re-seal pictures

If you remove the transmission (undo the bolts that hold the torque converter onto the flywheel first and push the torque converter into the transmission) then you might be able to see if something has broken off on the end of the torque converter or the front pump.

For more pictures of the front pump have a look here

722.303 in bits photo shoot

(I know you have a 722.315 but the .303 is a very close cousin - it shares many many parts)


##########



If I were you I'd remove the transmission first - have a look at the parts - take pictures and post them up here if need be - and assess the damage before buying a replacement transmission.

Does the $1800 price include a torque converter?
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #6  
Old 07-07-2013, 02:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...
And if there is anyone with a higher skill / experience level that wants to come to Hawaii and stay in our vacation apartment as a barter while showing and helping me how to do the job private message me and maybe we can work something out as well...

...
Oh I missed that the first time. Now there's an offer - if it was winter time here I'd probably be on a plane typing this!
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #7  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:07 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29
Wow Stretch Thanks for all the awesome information! So much I feel a bit on overload.... You really are a guru!

Hopefully I will have all of this figured out and repaired long before winter- but you never know.... Either way there is always a lot more that I could get help learning or fixing on my cars. You might have to share the place with Kerry for one day though...

I wondered if you think it is better to just remove the tranny or to take out the engine and tranny together. If you recommend just the tranny, I wonder if you can point me to a good set of instructions on how to properly do this- esp a very easy to understand explanation of how to deal with the torque converter separation. I don't quite understand what you mean when you say to slide it to the tranny side.

Also, do you have tricks for how to get the tranny clean before opening it up? Do you have a pressure washer or steam cleaner or just lots of solvent and elbow grease and rags. And about rags, I have heard that lint can be a problem- do you use something special. How do you plug or seal the fluid carrying connections? I have just been wrapping or plugging them with rags. Is this ok? I have also been worried about having a clean enough place to open it up and do the work. I was somewhat reassured when I saw Stretches photos of all the work on the deck but I am still worried about whether I can make a workspace that is clean enough and dust free enough.

DOES ANYONE HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS ON GOOD SOURCES FOR GETTING THESE PARTS AFFORDABLY ( INCLUDING THE SHIPPING )AND RELATIVELY EXPEDIENTLY IN HAWAII ???

Are there significant considerations in terms of matching trannies and 617 engines? or are they pretty interchangeable?

Guess I will start looking into the parts list for the pump repair. Is there anything else in terms of preventative maintenance that I should definitely include in that order. Remember that I have another tranny that I can also rob parts from ( note to self that I need to check model number on that tranny now that I know where it is...)

BTW How much would you think that just the parts would cost for a complete rebuild if I should ever venture into that dimension of reality?


And yes, the $1800 does include a torque converter and a two year warrantee.

Off to bed to most likely dream about trannies.... I hope they are shifting smoothly....

With Aloha

Levie
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  #8  
Old 07-07-2013, 09:45 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
Wow Stretch Thanks for all the awesome information! So much I feel a bit on overload.... You really are a guru!

...
I'm not a guru I'm just someone who wrote up a bit of stuff and took some photographs. There are many other people here who do this type of work as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...

I wondered if you think it is better to just remove the tranny or to take out the engine and tranny together. If you recommend just the tranny, I wonder if you can point me to a good set of instructions on how to properly do this- esp a very easy to understand explanation of how to deal with the torque converter separation. I don't quite understand what you mean when you say to slide it to the tranny side.

...
My recommendation is to remove engine and transmission together especially if you do not have access to a 2 post or a 4 post lift (or even a fork lift!). I think it is a struggle to remove the transmission under a car up on jack stands - I think you are more likely to damage yourself or the transmission removing it that way.

Here's how I did the job on my w123 300D

How I took out my 1981 W123 300D (euro) non-turbo engine

Other people will probably disagree with this advice though - some people think it is too much work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...
Also, do you have tricks for how to get the tranny clean before opening it up? Do you have a pressure washer or steam cleaner or just lots of solvent and elbow grease and rags. And about rags, I have heard that lint can be a problem- do you use something special. How do you plug or seal the fluid carrying connections? I have just been wrapping or plugging them with rags. Is this ok? I have also been worried about having a clean enough place to open it up and do the work. I was somewhat reassured when I saw Stretches photos of all the work on the deck but I am still worried about whether I can make a workspace that is clean enough and dust free enough.

...
To clean the outside of the transmission I use engine degreaser and gentle amounts of water - I usually "go off on one" when people mention pressure washers (cos they cause more trouble than they are worth) so don't get me started...

In the Mercedes hand book they "go off on one" about special virgin goats sheep leather lint free cloths when wiping the dip stick. I reckon you need to be careful but not make your life harder than it needs to be...

You do need to have a clean space when you are putting these transmissions back together. If like me you are taking everything to bits and cleaning everything then working outside is OK when you are taking it to pieces. Certain jobs like the valve body ought to be done in a clean environment (kitchen table!)...

...when you put it back together you need to make sure that you are being as surgically clean as possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...
DOES ANYONE HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS ON GOOD SOURCES FOR GETTING THESE PARTS AFFORDABLY ( INCLUDING THE SHIPPING )AND RELATIVELY EXPEDIENTLY IN HAWAII ???
...
You need to shop around

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...
Are there significant considerations in terms of matching trannies and 617 engines? or are they pretty interchangeable?

...
Yes get a 722.315 that suits your car and your engine. You can in principle fit other transmissions but you might come a cropper with the speedometer drive (722.303 for example has electronic speedo connection but was fitted to OM617) or shift points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...
BTW How much would you think that just the parts would cost for a complete rebuild if I should ever venture into that dimension of reality?
...
I reckon you could easily reach $1800 in parts if you are unlucky - reseal kit costs about $200 - brake bands can be as cheap as about $200 each, the clutch friction parts are cheap at about $5 a piece, but the stators are more expensive - a new governor is $$$$ - a brake drum is $$$$$$$$ new. I reckon the cheapest proper rebuild with new friction materials but lots of good luck => in other words nothing else is bust <= would be the best part of $1000 (small print: prices more or less correct at the time of posting - and what I say isn't gospel!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by leviegray View Post
...

And yes, the $1800 does include a torque converter and a two year warrantee.

Off to bed to most likely dream about trannies.... I hope they are shifting smoothly....

With Aloha

Levie
Sounds like quite a good deal to me if you want a quick solution - if, however, you want to learn something you have a great opportunity right now - pull it to bits!
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #9  
Old 07-07-2013, 07:31 PM
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your main problem is being in hawaii, you could score good operating tranz-s all day long in CA.
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  #10  
Old 07-07-2013, 08:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 29
Compatability questions

Tell me about it...

Next question in my journey is that I have now determined that my 'spare' tranny is a 722.115.

Does anybody know if I can use the pump or other internal parts from this unit to replace anything which might be broken in the 722.315 ? Any brief summary of what might be the same ( enough) or what is (too) different between these two models?

Thanks so much!

With Aloha

Levie
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  #11  
Old 07-08-2013, 01:58 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Somewhere in the Netherlands
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Massive difference between the 722.115 and the 722.315

No parts are interchangeable - well may be the odd nut or bolt - but that's it.

Have a look at this thread showing the parts in a 722.1(18)

722.118 Automatic transmission rebuild (Monster DIY)
__________________
1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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