New to working on cars - any advice welcome, lots of question - 1982 240d automatic - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

shertex · #16 07-31-2013, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

3) You WILL have to get under the car - probably sooner than later. Get a floor jack and JACK STANDS!!!! Ramps are dangerous - I know 2 guys who got killed under them. Get the 4 leg stands with ratchet adjusters, NOT the tripod ones with a pin to adjust (not safe). If you don't have a concrete driveway or garage floor to work on, get a couple of sheets of 3/4" (19mm) plywood to put the stands on. If you lay the plywood sideways under the car it'll also make a much more pleasant floor to lay on (gravel is painful). Harbor Freight is OK for the jack and stands.

Dan

Dan, could you elaborate a bit on the danger of ramps? I use the most heavy duty Rhino ramps with parking brake and wheel chucks on a perfectly flat surface. In your opinion, is that dangerous? If so, why? Thanks.

barry12345 · #17 07-31-2013, 05:10 PM

You have to evaluate ramps. From an engineering perspective some are sound but many less so. On some models if one rivet in the rod on the side lets go you could get a ramp collapse. Rhino ramps I am unfamiliar with.

Old mercedes diesels may have more weight on the front wheels than many other modern cars perhaps as well should be kept in mind. Common sense should be used in all cases of elevating cars and getting under them.

I always position support blocks of wood as a safety no matter what form of elevation I choose. Personally I would never use some forms of cheap ramps alone as the principal support.

Two by twelves of different lengths of wood nailed together are one pretty secure approach for ramps althougth they would be heavy. They absolutly would not collapse.

The common sense has to play a part as well. Never elevate a car to get under it where it can be hit by another car. Do not elevate cars on grades unless extreme precautions are used. Do not get underneath and apply extreme torque to a fastening. Unless you make absolutely sure the car can not topple. I only go under a car when I feel both comforatable and it in my mind it is absolutely safe to do so.

shertex · #18 07-31-2013, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

You have to evaluate ramps. From an engineering perspective some are sound but many less so. On some models if one rivet in the rod on the side lets go you could get a ramp collapse. Rhino ramps I am unfamiliar with.

Old mercedes diesels may have more weight on the front wheels than many other modern cars perhaps as well should be kept in mind. Common sense should be used in all cases of elevating cars and getting under them.

I always position support blocks of wood as a safety no matter what form of elevation I choose. Personally I would never use some forms of cheap ramps alone as the principal support.

Two by twelves of different lengths of wood nailed together are one pretty secure approach for ramps althougth they would be heavy. They absolutly would not collapse.

The common sense has to play a part as well. Never elevate a car to get under it where it can be hit by another car. Do not elevate cars on grades unless extreme precautions are used. Do not get underneath and apply extreme torque to a fastening. Unless you make absolutely sure the car can not topple. I only go under a car when I feel both comforatable and it in my mind it is absolutely safe to do so.

Thanks....good advice. The Rhino ramps I use have a 12,000 lb. capacity. I suppose, however, putting something else under there in addition to the ramps would be a good idea.

ROLLGUY · #19 07-31-2013, 05:54 PM

Welcome to the best Mercedes Benz forum on the planet. I don't know anyone that has gotten an MB Diesel as their first car, and wants to work on it as well. I commend you for that. Both of my nieces got 300CD's for their first cars, and they absolutely do NOT want to work on them. You definitely picked the most newbie mechanic friendly vehicle available. I don't think they get any simpler than a 240D. Short of rebuilding an engine or trans, if you follow the repair manuals and ask questions here, you should have no problem repairing any part of your car by yourself. As said, this is the best place for new parts (Pelican). For used, your local auto wrecking or better yet, members here have many parts cars. I think you will enjoy your new found hobby, as many of us here do as well.......Rich

ltima · #20 08-01-2013, 04:25 AM

As an update :

I have gotten the car to almost not shake at all. I followed the vacuum tubes and taped up anything (with electrical tape) that looked damaged or sketchy. This apparently helped a ton! I wrote down how much of the hoses looked bad and where they were so I'm going to see about maybe ordering a large spool of it or something cutting it to fit and replacing it all. Is this something that typically needs a lot of replacement?

I guess since its barely shaking now changing the engine mounts will happen as soon as they arrive. And no worry about that.

One thing that I think is interesting, is after taping up any leaky/cracked/sketchy looking hoses the ac no longer blows. Not sure what I did there, but I'll figure it out.

I also managed to changed the oil (with out melting my self!) I'm really glad you guys said to get more oil than I likely otherwise would have.

I also figured out that the power steering liquid is leaking and where from so I'll take a look at finding the hose for that as well tomorrow.

It is pretty exciting being able to make noticeable changes on the car, and It is honestly much more simple that I had thought. I still don't really know what I'm doing but I'm glad I've been able to do as much as I have.

@Maki I was actually pretty concerned about not having the hand strength to tighten things enough, so I feel somewhat better about that now.

@toomany MBZ, that is a fantastic link, thanks! I also like pictures, they really help me understand.

And again, Thanks for the advice it was actually all super helpful and gave me a lot more confidence and resources to go out and start messing around with the car. I'm super excited to see it run better as I work on it, its almost magical!

Dan Stokes · #21 08-01-2013, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shertex

Dan, could you elaborate a bit on the danger of ramps? I use the most heavy duty Rhino ramps with parking brake and wheel chucks on a perfectly flat surface. In your opinion, is that dangerous? If so, why? Thanks.

Even the stoutest of ramps have one fatal flaw:

If you're pulling on a bolt at 90* to the length of the car (say, a torque converter bolt) the ramps can and DO tip sideways. Both the guys I know who got killed (one I knew personally - he was a HS buddy) were killed in this way. His Dad was an engineer at the GM Proving Grounds and made the ramps in question out of structural steel. These ramps were STOUT. Granted it takes a pretty good pull to do this but when you're under a car trying to accomplish a task the tendency is to yank as hard as you need to and you may not notice that the car is a bit tippy.

If it was up to me I'd make these illegal to manufacture or sell in the US. I have a hoist so this issue goes away for me. If I have to work on the floor, out comes the floor jack and stands.

All this being said, you can probably do an oil change and other low-effort jobs with the car on ramps and on a solid floor and not experience an issue. But there's a tendency to think that you have the technology to raise the car and the next thing you know you're trying to pull the trans or some such and that's where the danger starts creeping.

Of course, another issue is that of convenience - the ramps SEEM more convenient but if you have to do anything with a wheel in the air (say, brake of suspension work) the ramps are a PITA.

Dan

funola · #22 08-01-2013, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Stokes

Even the stoutest of ramps have one fatal flaw:

If you're pulling on a bolt at 90* to the length of the car (say, a torque converter bolt) the ramps can and DO tip sideways. Both the guys I know who got killed (one I knew personally - he was a HS buddy) were killed in this way. His Dad was an engineer at the GM Proving Grounds and made the ramps in question out of structural steel. These ramps were STOUT. Granted it takes a pretty good pull to do this but when you're under a car trying to accomplish a task the tendency is to yank as hard as you need to and you may not notice that the car is a bit tippy.

If it was up to me I'd make these illegal to manufacture or sell in the US. .........
Dan

Wow I'd never imagine I could ever generate enough force on a bolt to tip a car sideways on ramps. Are we talking the same thing?

This is the type of ramps I have. It is made from one piece stamped steel. Mine are around 20 years old and pretty heavy. Each one weighs about 15 to 20 lbs so the gauge of the steel is pretty thick.

Dan Stokes · #23 08-02-2013, 10:08 AM

Yep, those are the ones.

I know many people have gotten away with using them for years but the design flaw is still there. The ramps pictured are stout enough to keep the car off the ground - it's the sideways torque thing that tips them over. And yes, you can develop enough force to do that. Remember that the higher the car is the more inertia it's storing, ready to be released. So putting the car on the ramps sort of pre-loads it for toppling.

I have seen some ramps with a piece of angle welded at 90* to the length of the ramps and at the high end of the ramp to essentially widen the base (the ramp then makes a "T" as viewed from above). I'd assume that this is a good fix and should stop the problem.

PLEASE be careful. I don't want to read another story about someone being pressed to death under a car.

Dan

JamesDean · #24 08-02-2013, 10:31 AM

If you had a welder laying around I suppose you could get some steel and weld in pieces to help prevent the sideways movement.

I had ramps years ago, always feared driving right over an off them! I just use jack stands now a days. Do wish I had a lift though!

toomany MBZ · #25 08-02-2013, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltima

As an update :

I have gotten the car to almost not shake at all. I followed the vacuum tubes and taped up anything (with electrical tape) that looked damaged or sketchy. This apparently helped a ton! I wrote down how much of the hoses looked bad and where they were so I'm going to see about maybe ordering a large spool of it or something cutting it to fit and replacing it all. Is this something that typically needs a lot of replacement?

I guess since its barely shaking now changing the engine mounts will happen as soon as they arrive. And no worry about that.

One thing that I think is interesting, is after taping up any leaky/cracked/sketchy looking hoses the ac no longer blows. Not sure what I did there, but I'll figure it out.

I also managed to changed the oil (with out melting my self!) I'm really glad you guys said to get more oil than I likely otherwise would have.

I also figured out that the power steering liquid is leaking and where from so I'll take a look at finding the hose for that as well tomorrow.

It is pretty exciting being able to make noticeable changes on the car, and It is honestly much more simple that I had thought. I still don't really know what I'm doing but I'm glad I've been able to do as much as I have.

@Maki I was actually pretty concerned about not having the hand strength to tighten things enough, so I feel somewhat better about that now.

@toomany MBZ, that is a fantastic link, thanks! I also like pictures, they really help me understand.

And again, Thanks for the advice it was actually all super helpful and gave me a lot more confidence and resources to go out and start messing around with the car. I'm super excited to see it run better as I work on it, its almost magical!

You're welcome.

Replace any of the connectors with new stuff, no need for tape.

Keep us posted.