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  #1  
Old 02-07-2014, 02:31 PM
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IP/Timing Chain Timing. OM617

I've found lots of threads on timing the IP but none on making sure that the IP is on the right position on the timing chain. I'm guessing that there should be a mark somewhere, likely visible thru the vacuum pump hole. I'll happily pull the vacuum pump (it's going away anyhow) to inspect this. My cam-to-vibration dampner alignment is picture perfect.

My Haynes manual is useless for this so:

- What is the procedure to verify the gross injection pump alignment (as opposed to the fine timing performed by adjusting the pump)?

Thanks

Dan
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:34 PM
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Notch / missing tooth - see chapter 07-200 in ye olde FSM
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:39 PM
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I don't have access to the FSM. Darn it!

I figured that there must be some sort of indicator. Hopefully someone will post up a pic.

Thanks

Dan
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  #4  
Old 02-07-2014, 02:52 PM
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www.startekinfo.com

Click on MB workshop Resources => then find CD/DVD => follow the bear...

(PM sent)
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #5  
Old 02-07-2014, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stretch View Post
www.startekinfo.com

Click on MB workshop Resources => then find CD/DVD => follow the bear...

(PM sent)
Got it and responded. THANKS!

Dan
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  #6  
Old 02-07-2014, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
I've found lots of threads on timing the IP but none on making sure that the IP is on the right position on the timing chain. I'm guessing that there should be a mark somewhere, likely visible thru the vacuum pump hole. I'll happily pull the vacuum pump (it's going away anyhow) to inspect this. My cam-to-vibration dampner alignment is picture perfect.

My Haynes manual is useless for this so:

- What is the procedure to verify the gross injection pump alignment (as opposed to the fine timing performed by adjusting the pump)?

Thanks

Dan
With the Fuel Injection Pump installed there is no visible Timing Marks anywhere on the exterior of the Fuel Injection Pump.
What Stretch is speaking is if you pull out your Fuel Injection Pump you will find on the End of the Fuel Injection Pump Camshaft a finely Splined Coupling (I don't think it can be called a Gear).

On the Coupling 2 of the Splines are missing and that part when lined up with a Mark on the Front Bearing Cap of the Fuel Injection Pump Times it.
But, before the Fuel Injection Pump is installed it the Crankshaft Damper timing makes need to be lined up to 24 degrees before top dead center on the compression stroke.

Some of the Fuel Injection Pumps have a port on the side for the use of a Locking Timing Pin to be inserted into. When you use that the pump is timed to about 15 degrees after top dead center.

Before dealing with the Fuel Injection Pump Timing you might consider checking the Timing Chain Stretch (has mainly to do with the Valve Timing but the same Chain drives the Fuel Injection Pump) and if that is off you might consider using an offset Woodruff Key to correct it or if it is extremely bad replacing the Timing Chain.

Please note that way back there was a mistake made in marking the Bearing Caps on the front of the Fuel Injection Pump. I don't know the specifics of which pumps that applies to.
The year Engine and Model number would be needed to get some idea if that is the case. That info is in the Manual.
Attached Thumbnails
IP/Timing Chain Timing. OM617-fuel-injection-pump-timing-mark-correct-lined-up-center-screw-jan-14.jpg  
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Old 02-07-2014, 04:13 PM
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Let me post what my concern centers around.

I had the chain tensioner and the guides off so I could lower the crank and do the rear main seal. I made every effort to keep a little tension on the chain but I was thinking that there might be a chance for the chain to slip a tooth somewhere in the system. Because the cam and balancer mark still line up I'm thinking that relationship is OK but I'm a little concerned about the IP drive being correct. More than likely it's OK but I'd like to verify that.

The chain seems OK. The timing marks line up PERFECTLY so there doesn't seem to be any slop. I'm probably just worrying needlessly.

Dan
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  #8  
Old 02-07-2014, 04:18 PM
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There's no way of checking that by looking at the chain - sorry. The main thing is not to have pistons hitting valves; then you can do a drip test or get funola and his dynamic timing testing kit...
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #9  
Old 02-08-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
Let me post what my concern centers around.

I had the chain tensioner and the guides off so I could lower the crank and do the rear main seal. I made every effort to keep a little tension on the chain but I was thinking that there might be a chance for the chain to slip a tooth somewhere in the system. Because the cam and balancer mark still line up I'm thinking that relationship is OK but I'm a little concerned about the IP drive being correct. More than likely it's OK but I'd like to verify that.

The chain seems OK. The timing marks line up PERFECTLY so there doesn't seem to be any slop. I'm probably just worrying needlessly.

Dan
If you can Hand crank you Engine and nothing hangs up you could simply try starting the Engine.

I have no idea which Year the Engine you are using came out of.

If you have a Turbo Diesel that has a 17mm Hex Plug on the Governor Housing you can crank the Engine to 15 Degrees after top dead center of the Compression Stroke and remove the Plug an view the Tang that is visable in the Plug Hole and if that is centered your Timing ought to be OK to start the Engine.
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Old 02-08-2014, 08:15 PM
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I have an '85 OM617 Turbo Diesel. I think there IS a plug and it would be a snap to pull it and look for an aligned mark. I can easily see the timing marks on the dampner so I can set 15* with no issue. THAT'S the info I was looking for - THANKS!!!!!

Dan
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  #11  
Old 02-08-2014, 08:25 PM
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If the valve pan is still off. Make sure you rotate the engine unti the valve lobes of the number one cylinder are pointing generally upward. Then look for the tang to be present. With the harmonic balancer showing the right degrees of course.

If the valve cover is already on rotate the engine till the recommended degrees on the damper. If the tang is not present rotate the engine again exactly one more turn.

This is because the engine is a four stroke and the tang will only be present on the firing cycle.
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  #12  
Old 02-08-2014, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
I have an '85 OM617 Turbo Diesel. I think there IS a plug and it would be a snap to pull it and look for an aligned mark. I can easily see the timing marks on the dampner so I can set 15* with no issue. THAT'S the info I was looking for - THANKS!!!!!

Dan
If it has the Original Fuel Injection Pump it shouldhave the port.

The below pic is of an M type Pump but the part that the Yellow Arrow points to would be the same. That blade/tang is what you are looking for.
Attached Thumbnails
IP/Timing Chain Timing. OM617-m-fuel-injectin-pump-timing-hole-jan-14.jpg  
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  #13  
Old 02-09-2014, 10:49 AM
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The cam cover is still off as I just ran the valves (that's "performed the valve clearance adjustments" for the uninitiated). I have it lined up on #1 TDC at the moment but it's no problem to crank in 15 degrees. I haven't picked and installed a radiator yet so the front of the engine is easily accessible.

Thanks for the pic of the view thru the hole. I looked in the FSM but couldn't find a reference to that.

Dan
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  #14  
Old 02-09-2014, 11:14 AM
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It's based on the whole A-B timing light / RIV method information but you are meant to have an expensive special tool that detects that notch for you.
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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!
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  #15  
Old 02-09-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Stokes View Post
The cam cover is still off as I just ran the valves (that's "performed the valve clearance adjustments" for the uninitiated). I have it lined up on #1 TDC at the moment but it's no problem to crank in 15 degrees. I haven't picked and installed a radiator yet so the front of the engine is easily accessible.

Thanks for the pic of the view thru the hole. I looked in the FSM but couldn't find a reference to that.

Dan
Other Forum Members had suggested looking in the Port to check the timing. It is not in the Manual because it is not a method of timing. It is just a "Ball Park" method to see if the Timing is close.

The Port is actually there for use of the A&B Light, RIV Timing Method and the Fuel Injection Pump Timing Locking Pin and all of those reference on that Tang/Blade inside of the Fuel Injection Pump Governor Carrier.

In the below thread various timing methods are spoken of and there is a pic of the Timing/Locking Pin.
Does anyone send a RIV light for timing a 603?
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