New 220D owner, need direction - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Lucas · #1 09-26-2014, 03:09 PM

Greetings! I just picked up a 1970 220D with a 4spd manual. I was told it had 240D motor dropped in 10 years ago, and a rebuilt tranny 5 years ago. I have the records, but no engine number listing on paper.

I'm hoping to ask a couple questions as I can't decide which direction to go.

The casting on the block says 615.912. Which motor is this?

Second, I put a few miles on it to see what was going on. It has a lot of blowby, and when I pulled the glow plugs #2 had a significant amount of oil on it. Some blue smoke, not too bad. Oil pressure is 15psi at idle, 40 psi at 60mph.

Here's where it gets tricky. Last drive I started to get a loud clanking sound at higher RPM's, not a knock. At idle it sounds fine, but will randomly die and act like it locks up.

I have glow plugs out, can't turn it by hand. Starter will still move it over with no clanking. A trusted mechanic listened to it run, and thinks it's coming from in the bell housing. He advised me to pull the transmission and see what's happening around the flywheel.

I'm gonna crank on it with a stethoscope tomorrow and try and locate the noise.

I can technically check compression but can't check valves as I can't turn it by hand.

Part of me what's to pull the whole combo and go through the whole motor. Or I could drop the trans, look at the flywheel, and see if it unlocks. I could then check valves and perform a leak down test, but can't do compression. I may find that I need to rebuild it, and wasted my time dropping the tranny the hard way.

In the long term I'm going to do the motor anyways. Leaning towards pulling it doing a valve check/leak down on the stand, and compression once it's all back together. I'm not sure of the compression will give me results that I won't see with the leak down.

I've built a few gas motors, confident doing this thing slowly.

I'm also wondering if I'll want to swap to something else instead of rebuilding this motor, once I learn more.

What would you do if you were me?

Thanks

DieselPaul · #2 09-26-2014, 03:34 PM

Replying from a phone so its tough to reply too in depth but a 615.912 is a 2.2L 220D motor. A 616.xxx would be a 240 motor. So either the motor hasn't been replaced or the seller was confused as to what the donor car was.

That manual trans is not hard to get out and isn't very time consuming. I've had a motor bind up when reinstalling a motor before and not want to turn.

Have you adjusted the valves?

Lucas · #3 09-26-2014, 04:02 PM

No I haven't. Next time I do this it goes straight into the garage for valves/compression/leak down.

I'm glad to hear that. The motor type and the binding.

Would anyone rebuild this motor? Or pull it apart to inspect? Will I hate myself for bolting/un bolting to the tranny twice? Im doing something Sunday.

Lucas · #4 09-26-2014, 04:33 PM

What caused it to bind up?

DieselPaul · #5 09-26-2014, 04:41 PM

When we put the motor in on an automatic car the flexplate somehow bound up. It was nearly impossible to turn over. Unbolted the bell housing bolts and I heard it pop back. We paid closer attention on our next approach and all was well, car has been on the road for a while. This was an auto 220 gas W115. So not the same situation, but I have seen them bind up. However if the car was previously on the road running, it wouldn't randomly bind up that way. I reread you post on my computer and my comment on that front is probably irrelevant.

1 bar of oil pressure at idle is fine, it should peg the gauge on the highway though.

Are you sure you don't have a blown headgasket and you are temporarily hydrolocking the motor? You don't see many blown HGs on 615s, but I have seen motor hydrolock from tons of fluid in the cylinders from a bad HG.

Rebuild parts will probably prove tough to find. I have a 220D motor in Ohio out of a '72 220D 4speed that ran for a couple minutes until it ran out of fuel, its overall condition is fairly unknown but I could attempt to compression test it on the bench if you decided you needed a motor and you're near Ohio.

barry12345 · #6 09-26-2014, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul

When we put the motor in on an automatic car the flexplate somehow bound up. It was nearly impossible to turn over. Unbolted the bell housing bolts and I heard it pop back. We paid closer attention on our next approach and all was well, car has been on the road for a while. This was an auto 220 gas W115. So not the same situation, but I have seen them bind up. However if the car was previously on the road running, it wouldn't randomly bind up that way. I reread you post on my computer and my comment on that front is probably irrelevant.

1 bar of oil pressure at idle is fine, it should peg the gauge on the highway though.

Are you sure you don't have a blown headgasket and you are temporarily hydrolocking the motor? You don't see many blown HGs on 615s, but I have seen motor hydrolock from tons of fluid in the cylinders from a bad HG.

Rebuild parts will probably prove tough to find. I have a 220D motor in Ohio out of a '72 220D 4speed that ran for a couple minutes until it ran out of fuel, its overall condition is fairly unknown but I could attempt to compression test it on the bench if you decided you needed a motor and you're near Ohio.

Sounds like the torque converter in your case was not totally bottomed out prior to the transmission install. You where kind of lucky that it hit its pump slots and dropped into it's proper place .

As for the posters car I am totally uncertain of what is going on. I have seen an engine lockup from a loose bolt behind the flywheel though one time. Usually not intermittent though.

leathermang · #7 09-26-2014, 05:41 PM

Lucas, good idea to go to your control panel and place your location in the upper right of your posts.... someone close by might have what you are needing... either parts or help...

Lucas · #8 09-26-2014, 06:11 PM

30 miles north of Santa Barbara, Ca. Will do when back at the computer.

I have the glow plugs out, so I assume if it was hydro locked water would come out?

I've searched for 240d parts, I'll have to try this one now. As well, look at what's popular to swap. I'm understanding the gist of it now, where to draw the line on this motor.

barry12345 · #9 09-26-2014, 06:22 PM

Those motors were not as strong overall as the 240 motor that is still not too hard to find a good use example of . Other than moving the oil filter they go in as a replacement I suspect. Personally I would not pursue doing much on the engine you have.

You have to check on the compatability of the swap though first. I think it has been accomplished many times.

leathermang · #10 09-26-2014, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barry12345

........ I would not pursue doing much on the engine you have.........

Agreed...but the normal tuneup things might let him drive it while he researches what his options are.....

barry12345 · #11 09-26-2014, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leathermang

Agreed...but the normal tuneup things might let him drive it while he researches what his options are.....

Very True and logical.

leathermang · #12 09-26-2014, 06:15 PM

Lucas, good thing to do all the little cheap fast tune up things first.... so you know what you have...
The Manual Trans is really a plus.... as few people are able to find good repairs for automatic trans this old once they start giving troubles... your trans has to be really abused to mess up.. like using the wrong trans fluid which eats up the synchros ....

Lucas · #13 09-26-2014, 10:02 PM

Man I'm thankful for you all. This really makes a lot of sense. I'll drop that tranny and see what I'm working with. Then go through the motor with it still in.

I really like the car and it's style, the mpg's, and realizability. I've had a lot of vehicles, and this is it for me.

I like the simplicity of the 240d. I understand the 220d isn't much different, and when I got this one the delivery valves on the injection pump were leaking. I've had this happen on international, Isuzu, old fords, cummins, etc, and non of them would keep running. This thing purred along.

I'm just getting a grasp on the 300d with a turbo. Might be nice. As well, a 5-6 speed trans. Will research more.

Oil pressure pegs on the freeway, kinda scared me, glad you said that.

They changed the tranny fluid before I got it. Wealthy man bought it to restore, then didn't like all the oil on his driveway. Told me to come get it fast as possible, so I got a deal

The fluid has a greenish tint to it, thinner than gear oil but heavier than ATF. It looks just like some penzoil MTF I have on the shelf. I read about redline or using ATF in colder climates. Does my fluid sound right? Lol. I'll search some more.

Thanks again. If anyone is bored and has some good links or info on motors, I'm all ears.

cooljjay · #14 09-26-2014, 10:03 PM

If the glows have oil on them, it is very possible that your diaphragm vacuum pump has torn, this will cause oil to be sucked into the engine and will also cause the smoke.

You may also have a clogged oil bath filter, torn diaphragm in the governor of the injection pump, tight valves and/or bad valve steam seals.

If the car is locking up occasionally....it is also possible the starter gear isn't popping back after cranking...

hmm if your transmission fluid has a green tint to it.....it is very possible coolant is leaking into the transmission from a bad cooler inside the radiator.

Lucas · #15 09-26-2014, 11:51 PM

Thanks!

It was only #2 cylinder that had oil. Which points towards valve stem seals? Being the intermediate mechanic I am, I assumed the rings were shot.

1. Does this same vacuum operate the brakes? They work good, and I notice the big vacuum lines are new. The object they run to is on the front of the motor, has a leak so I assume when I pull it to reseal I will see it if it's torn?

2. Oil bath filter? Is the same as pickup screen? I need to seal the pan anyways. I understand I'll never get it to seal with all the blow by, but now I have an excuse to try

3. Diaphragm on injector is good. Problem started around the corner from a good injector shop, where my buddy works, and is a mercedes guy. Man I was lucky.

4. Once I seperate them, and it unlocks (fingers crossed) I'll check valves and do a leak down test. I assume this is the only way to check the stem seals?

5. I was hoping for the starter. It looks new and I figured it could be a dud. I pulled it out and still won't crank.

6. And the tranny fluid is a slight tint. Looks just like other manual tranny's fluid I have. But I won't rule that out. Radiator was a little low when I got it.

Man you all are the experts on old diesel problems. Haha. I bet you have seen it all. Getting it unlocked, adjusting valves, and running some tests will tell more hopefully. I'm really having a lot of fun with diagnosing, I've never had this many problems at once.

I'm so grateful for the help, I'm trying to think of how to contribute. I'll make a new thread tomorrow with my temp gauge setup, prob in vintage section. I found one that fit perfectly where my clock went, which didn't work. I removed the clock female connector on the board, ran my temp sensor through it, and got a really clean install. Then the problems started. Haha.