As The Don Requested: Tool Discussion Moved - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Adriel · #1 03-09-2015, 07:21 PM

[

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maki

Whenever I'm at a swap meet I head for the used-tool vendors to check out their wares. Got a nice 1/4-inch drive Easco ratchet awhile back that beats any of the mass-market stuff I've seen in recent years. Thirty years old if it's a day. Estate sales are also a great source.

Maki, where do you find these swap meets?

QUOTE=charmalu;3450693]I agree[...]

I mostly use a craftsman 3/8 long handle polished Tear Drop head one. think they go for around $30.
They work ok for the most parts, but the plastic tang for will not hold some times and Iam free wheeling.

Replaced it at Sears, and eventually it did the same thing.
They don`t make them as good as the older craftsman on the 70`s etc...
I have a few of the old one`s.

Charlie[/QUOTE]

Charlie, glad the swap meets have worked out. Right now with my pain in my hands and wrists, I am picky, so want a specific ratchet. Though, will go with 1/2" drive if I do get picky, then pick up any 3/8" drive for general, if I can find.

If you paid $30, then even more reason $45 is good for a Wright! I see this model sold other places for as much as $150!

Now that you mention it, think that is what happened to my Craftsman also! Wright is all metal, fine tool.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maki

Another old brand I run across once in awhile is Kal. I've got a nice Kal 11 mm combo that has done a nice job for me on brake flare fittings. Some Kal wrenches are American made, but I guess some of the newer ones are made in Asia. My Kal 11mm says made in USA on it.

Maki, good to know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by w123fanman

I don't have a wide selection of tool brands nor any expensive tools but I'll give a rundown of what I have and then what I want.

[...]

Finally, for breaker bars, I have an old 16 inch or so Craftsman 1/2 inch bar and a harbor freight 25 inch 1/2 breaker. The Craftsman is much much better than the harbor freight but the harbor freight is longer. Problem with the harbor freight is the pin that holds the head in likes to back out which could cause serious injury and the bar itself also likes to bend. The best thing to do it to put a cheater pipe over the craftsman one and call it a day.

[...]

From what I've seen from Craftsman, I wouldn't buy a full set from them.

I also am wanting impact sockets for which the best rated that are within my budget are Tekton. They have nice short and deep 3/8 and 1/2 sets.

That is the idea behind this thread!

Trouble is, all those brands are made in China, Twain, or India, and suspect them. My shop teacher drilled into me not skimp, as your body was at risk. He was even more so, and disliked Craftsman, preferring Snap-On.

Had a really weird experience this morning. I read your post, wondered where my breaker bar was, and what brand, as a gift from Vater. decided to put together my drafting chair I have had in storages for years, but not enough space for the drafting table and chair. Well, figured getting over my laptop be less pain, so got it out, and guess what was in the packaging? My breaker bar and its 3/4" to 1/2" adapter!

A bit rusted, but glad to have it back!

My breaker is a Craftsman, and have used it on a 6' extension with good results.

Yes, a shame, but will not buy anything more of them, unless I can put it my hand, check that it is made in the U.S.A., and be sure it is decent quality.

Where is Tekton made?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmousemalibu

Not trying to be a flaunt but here's a pic of my box

Having been a professional automotive repair technician for most of my working career and now an aircraft mechanic, using tools is an everyday affair and required tools that can stand day-in, day-out service. The vast majority is all Snap-On. I really do love their hand tools, they are in most cases some of if not the best in the business. I'm not loyal to the name, I will buy whats best and from whom ever happens to make them. Snap-On certainly doesn't make the best of everything. My toolbox at home is a mix mash of various stuff, plenty of cheapie's and HF stuff and a mix of Craftsman. I can't afford to duplicate the work box! Its nice to have stuff you can grind/weld/hack into what you need and not care. Whats important is it gets the job done.

Some other really good brands, Mac, Matco, Cornwell, SK, Hazet, Beta, Facom. The european stuff is nice but pricey here.

Well, hey, got to have some place to put the tools! I picked up a old used home grade rolling box with top chest about 2 feet across for what I considered a real good deal. I got very frustrated not being able to put away my tools and loosing them; still missing odds and ends. But, now the old hand box has my specialty tools and larger mechanics tools, with the bottom door compartment in the roller holding the rest of the large items and a bin of home stuff (friend gave me his Dad's collection of old tools and the home stuff). Now each type has a drawer that is labeled. So nice!

If one can find an old Craftsman rolling tool chest, they give good bang for the buck. The lower quality new stuff is junk, and many folks can't afford professional, especially Snap-On which holds its value, so used still not a help.

What brand is your screwdrivers? I miss having a matched set, and want to eventually have a backup if I can't get made in the U.S.A. for the broken ones (still have yet to replace one). I mean, is there really a point to get Snap-On when Wright should work just as well?

Not brand loyal either, but got my favorites!

Hazet, Beta, and Facom being European? Know Hazet is, and very expensive.

Don't forget Zelenda! They are about $3 to $5 for each wrench, so if getting a lot of sizes, can add up. The advantage to them is they are very slim and black oxide finish. Forget what I paid, but then got most at a tool shop that was closing up, so got a good deal I am sure; $45 is coming to mind. They are special, as are in a nice plastic tool roll. Sadly starting to fall apart in the Desert warm climate.

Some of these nicer American brands are hard to find dealers for.

Where does these brands fit?

mytmousemalibu · #2 03-10-2015, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

[

Well, hey, got to have some place to put the tools! I picked up a old used home grade rolling box with top chest about 2 feet across for what I considered a real good deal. I got very frustrated not being able to put away my tools and loosing them; still missing odds and ends. But, now the old hand box has my specialty tools and larger mechanics tools, with the bottom door compartment in the roller holding the rest of the large items and a bin of home stuff (friend gave me his Dad's collection of old tools and the home stuff). Now each type has a drawer that is labeled. So nice!

If one can find an old Craftsman rolling tool chest, they give good bang for the buck. The lower quality new stuff is junk, and many folks can't afford professional, especially Snap-On which holds its value, so used still not a help.

What brand is your screwdrivers? I miss having a matched set, and want to eventually have a backup if I can't get made in the U.S.A. for the broken ones (still have yet to replace one). I mean, is there really a point to get Snap-On when Wright should work just as well?

Not brand loyal either, but got my favorites!

Hazet, Beta, and Facom being European? Know Hazet is, and very expensive.

Don't forget Zelenda! They are about $3 to $5 for each wrench, so if getting a lot of sizes, can add up. The advantage to them is they are very slim and black oxide finish. Forget what I paid, but then got most at a tool shop that was closing up, so got a good deal I am sure; $45 is coming to mind. They are special, as are in a nice plastic tool roll. Sadly starting to fall apart in the Desert warm climate.

Some of these nicer American brands are hard to find dealers for.

Where does these brands fit?

I really like my box, It was a limited run/special called a "Chrome Edition" which has all the nice accents and the extruded/plated drawer fronts. If I ever need a place to live, I'll toss a pillow in there, lol! All my work screwdrivers are Snap-On. They are about as well made as they get, nice grips, wrench hubs and they are tough. If you manage to break one in anyway, it gets replaced free of charge, for life. There are a lot of other good drivers but there is a difference in a quality one VS a chinese one. I do like drivers with hollow ground tips too, they engage better with less risk of chewing up your screws (gunsmithing tip

) Grace USA makes some nice and affordable hollow ground drivers.

Yup, Beta, Facom, Stahlwillie, Hazet, all euro and well made! When I graduated BMW Step, BMW gave us grads a very very nice 3/8 drive Hazet high-accuracy torque wrench (in Nm) with a special engraving on it. I treasure that thing! I looked one up and iirc, it was like a $400+ tool

Looks like the one below...

Adriel · #3 03-10-2015, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmousemalibu

I really like my box, It was a limited run/special called a "Chrome Edition" which has all the nice accents and the extruded/plated drawer fronts. If I ever need a place to live, I'll toss a pillow in there, lol! All my work screwdrivers are Snap-On. They are about as well made as they get, nice grips, wrench hubs and they are tough. If you manage to break one in anyway, it gets replaced free of charge, for life. There are a lot of other good drivers but there is a difference in a quality one VS a chinese one. I do like drivers with hollow ground tips too, they engage better with less risk of chewing up your screws (gunsmithing tip

) Grace USA makes some nice and affordable hollow ground drivers.

Yup, Beta, Facom, Stahlwillie, Hazet, all euro and well made! When I graduated BMW Step, BMW gave us grads a very very nice 3/8 drive Hazet high-accuracy torque wrench (in Nm) with a special engraving on it. I treasure that thing! I looked one up and iirc, it was like a $400+ tool

Looks like the one below...

mytmousemalibu, then your box is even more of an investment, as folks love limited runs, plus looks so nice!

How did you even find out about the limited run?

Me personally, I don't think I could fathom paying $1,000 for a tool box when I could get a auto, which be more useful. Or, even better, one of those floor lifts. As I get older and my joints are failing, will eventually have to.

Yep, just like Harbor Freight, Craftsman, Wright, with lifetime warranty. But, are they really worth the extra cost?

What does hollow ground actually mean?

Opa was a gun smith of single shots, but never seen any special tools other than his bullet loading stuff.

Interesting no order of quality for European, unlike American.

B.T.W., kept thinking I had Hazet tools, but couldn't remember what. Well, couldn't sleep last night, so did a tool pickup and sorting after done installing the turbocharger. I do! They are the special valve adjusting wrenches.

Congratulations on the high marks! Bet you hardly use it.

I got a vintage machinist caliper with slide rule, and so special, didn't use it and put it somewhere safe...

Plus, being a teenager, I just could't figure out how to get ti to give measurements. If I ever have children, which I very much doubt, or my Brother has a son if I don't, will pass it on down.

mytmousemalibu · #4 03-11-2015, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

mytmousemalibu, then your box is even more of an investment, as folks love limited runs, plus looks so nice!

How did you even find out about the limited run?

Me personally, I don't think I could fathom paying $1,000 for a tool box when I could get a auto, which be more useful. Or, even better, one of those floor lifts. As I get older and my joints are failing, will eventually have to.

Yep, just like Harbor Freight, Craftsman, Wright, with lifetime warranty. But, are they really worth the extra cost?

What does hollow ground actually mean?

Opa was a gun smith of single shots, but never seen any special tools other than his bullet loading stuff.

Interesting no order of quality for European, unlike American.

B.T.W., kept thinking I had Hazet tools, but couldn't remember what. Well, couldn't sleep last night, so did a tool pickup and sorting after done installing the turbocharger. I do! They are the special valve adjusting wrenches.

Congratulations on the high marks! Bet you hardly use it.

I got a vintage machinist caliper with slide rule, and so special, didn't use it and put it somewhere safe...

Plus, being a teenager, I just could't figure out how to get ti to give measurements. If I ever have children, which I very much doubt, or my Brother has a son if I don't, will pass it on down.

My Snap-On dealer (biggest in the state) has a huge truck and a lot of inventory and he showcases boxes on his truck and happened to have mine in there one day, I had to have it!

I'll keep it for as long as i'm around, shouldn't need to ever replace it. My previous box, a much smaller craftsman was running out of room and showing wear n' tear from daily use so i decided to upgrade. I could by a new or barely used car for what that box costs. I'd hate to count my total I have wrapped up in tools, lets just say I could buy a small house, payed in full

As for quality, each person must weigh that on there own. How much are you going to use them? How much should I spend? Etc. I'd say buy the better end of what you can afford. I don't mean like, go sell a kidney just to buy the best you can, but buy what your budget allows comfortably.

I tossed in a pic of hollow ground (right pic) VS flat ground (Left pic) tipped screwdrivers, easy to see why a HG engages better

charmalu · #5 03-11-2015, 01:39 PM

Any of you guys remember Wizard tools?

There use to be Western Auto stores. They sold everything, appliances, lawn mowers, tools you name it.

They had a line of tools with their name on them, Wizard.

I bought a 3/8" ratchet maybe about 1970, I used the heck out of it, and became my favorite
even over craftsman. It had a Flex Head that actually stayed put instead of flopping around.

Finally about 10 years back it finally gave up the ghost.

I searched around for info on them but come up more or less empty handed.

I replaced it with a Craftsman 3/8 with a Flex head, and cut the handle to the length the Wizard has.
The damn Flex will not stay put, so doesn`t get much use.

I agree with Rollguy, those Craftsman with the lazer etched sizes on the Sockets are hard to read, and with wear, almost impossible to read.

There is no warranty for replacement if the etch wears off.

Charlie

Adriel · #6 03-11-2015, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmousemalibu

My Snap-On dealer (biggest in the state) has a huge truck and a lot of inventory and he showcases boxes on his truck and happened to have mine in there one day, I had to have it!

I'll keep it for as long as i'm around, shouldn't need to ever replace it. My previous box, a much smaller craftsman was running out of room and showing wear n' tear from daily use so i decided to upgrade. I could by a new or barely used car for what that box costs. I'd hate to count my total I have wrapped up in tools, lets just say I could buy a small house, payed in full

As for quality, each person must weigh that on there own. How much are you going to use them? How much should I spend? Etc. I'd say buy the better end of what you can afford. I don't mean like, go sell a kidney just to buy the best you can, but buy what your budget allows comfortably.

I tossed in a pic of hollow ground (right pic) VS flat ground (Left pic) tipped screwdrivers, easy to see why a HG engages better

mytmousemalibu, talk about an impulse purchase!

I buy on the edge, as good quality tools mean that much to me!

Thank you so much for the visual, from a visual person!

So, are any of your screwdrivers hollow ground or come close? I mean, better grinding on the American and European?

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Any of you guys remember Wizard tools?

There use to be Western Auto stores. They sold everything, appliances, lawn mowers, tools you name it.

They had a line of tools with their name on them, Wizard.

I bought a 3/8" ratchet maybe about 1970, I used the heck out of it, and became my favorite
even over craftsman. It had a Flex Head that actually stayed put instead of flopping around.

Finally about 10 years back it finally gave up the ghost.

I searched around for info on them but come up more or less empty handed.

I replaced it with a Craftsman 3/8 with a Flex head, and cut the handle to the length the Wizard has.
The damn Flex will not stay put, so doesn`t get much use.

I agree with Rollguy, those Craftsman with the lazer etched sizes on the Sockets are hard to read, and with wear, almost impossible to read.

There is no warranty for replacement if the etch wears off.

Charlie

Charlie, looks like it died the same way as Monkey Wards and Longs Drugs.

What broke on the Wizard ratchet?

When did you try and get the socket replaced based on finish? Will other brands not do the same?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

You can find some amazing good deals that way. My first tools were bought at a swap meet in Tucson, Arizona about 1970. A mix of brands (one wrench at a time guarantees variety), about half American-made, a dollar or two apiece, I still have most of them. Later in the '70s and '80s I bought a lot of Craftsman tools while they were still Made in USA. Since then I've bought a variety of brands including Harbor Freight tools; some are junk, some are OK. If I were wrenching for a living I could justify the high-priced tools.

Jeremy

Jeremy, love to find a swap meet, but I am clueless... Especially when it comes to quality and selection.

charmalu · #7 03-12-2015, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

mytmousemalibu, talk about an impulse purchase!

I buy on the edge, as good quality tools mean that much to me!

Thank you so much for the visual, from a visual person!

So, are any of your screwdrivers hollow ground or come close? I mean, better grinding on the American and European?

Charlie, looks like it died the same way as Monkey Wards and Longs Drugs.

What broke on the Wizard ratchet?

When did you try and get the socket replaced based on finish? Will other brands not do the same?

Jeremy, love to find a swap meet, but I am clueless... Especially when it comes to quality and selection.

Something in the ratcheting mechanisim gave up.

I n read that Sears would not replace the etched Sockets, think on this Forum a couple years ago.

I think Western Auto was bought out by...???

Charlie

mytmousemalibu · #8 03-12-2015, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Something in the ratcheting mechanisim gave up.

I n read that Sears would not replace the etched Sockets, think on this Forum a couple years ago.

I think Western Auto was bought out by...???

Charlie

We had Western Auto still when I was a kid, I loved that place but they didn't have the cool stuff they used to like guns and other non-automotive things. Still have a Western Auto/Joe Amato t-shirt somewhere! I miss the small shops that catered more to the DIY guys and garage hot rodders. We even used to have a Super Shops performance parts store!
Western Auto stores here all got bought out by Advance Auto Parts, which is the absolute last place i'd go for parts here.

I now prefer Autozone. Some of there Duralast tools are ok. Really the HF Pittsburgh and Pitts professional stuff ain't bad. Their "gearwrenches" are great!

The old Craftsman stuff & service for that matter was great but it's slid down the hill fast. I have always hated their ratchets but it wasn't too big of a deal when you used to hand the guy the broken one and he grabbed one off the shelf and you were on your way. I saw the plummet ahead when I got handed a "new replacement" ratchet that had hammer marks all over it. I ask, "What the hell is this?", he says, "oh we don't give out new ones anymore, only refurbished ones, if we have any on hand". I was not pleased, you buy the tool, you buy the guarantee too. And most the time the refurbished ones are terrible. I don't even bother anymore. Sad really. I have a pile of broke Crapsman ratchets at home. I use my old garage sale tools, like old Proto's and SK's at home. They actually hold up and work.

Adriel · #9 03-12-2015, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytmousemalibu

As for hollow grinding, you would just need to look, ask, or check the packaging but it should be visually obvious. The majority of my drivers are not hollow ground, most of the time thats fine and has been on cars but once in a while a bugger of a screw pops up, I have a bit set with HG bits I can use. All my gun work I use HG tipped drivers. Grace USA makes some good ones and not terribly expensive and can be used on about anything.

mytmousemalibu (what a mouthful to say every time), I didn't mean full hollow point grinding. I am really trying to understand the point of buying higher end screwdrivers.

I do see the nicer ones have a black oxide tip, which I would think bite better than slippery chrome and have more precision?

When I get back out to Comufornia, will look at Opa's screwdriver's, as do recall one that looked exactly like the Grace hollow point. I just bet there is one, just really noticed the difference.

Quote:

Originally Posted by charmalu

Something in the ratcheting mechanisim gave up.

I n read that Sears would not replace the etched Sockets, think on this Forum a couple years ago.

I think Western Auto was bought out by...???

Charlie

Charlie, that is what I thought. If you could get it apart, just bet one of your generations machinist could make a replacement. I helped with that on a Jaguar window regulator. Cog stripped out and since some good teeth left, used that to pattern the rest. Went back in the door, evaluated, and send back for final finish.

Yep, so defiantly after my experience and before they went down hill.

Not so Advanced Auto Parts apparently, by strangulation.

Jeremy5848 · #10 03-12-2015, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

Jeremy, love to find a swap meet, but I am clueless... Especially when it comes to quality and selection.

If you're confused by the terminology, a "swap meet" is the same as a "flea market." Different parts of the country use different names for the same thing and I'm sure there are local words in languages all over the world. In Algeria and Morocco we went to the "Souk," the Arabic word for "market" or "bazaar."

Picking the good stuff out of the trash at either one is like buying on eBay—it helps to know what you're doing. Like most of us, I learned the hard way, by experience. "Before you meet the handsome prince, you have to kiss a lot of frogs."

For tools, I looked for stuff marked "Made in USA" with a recognizable name brand like Thorsen, Proto, Craftsman, etc. In 1970, the "cheap" tools came from Japan and Taiwan; today it's China and other Asian countries. I spent a lot of time wandering the stalls, offering, bargaining, "I'm a poverty-stricken student" (true in 1970), occasionally spending a dollar or two. My prize was a set of ten (10) Bonney ignition wrenches for $2!

Jeremy

Adriel · #11 03-12-2015, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy5848

If you're confused by the terminology, a "swap meet" is the same as a "flea market." Different parts of the country use different names for the same thing and I'm sure there are local words in languages all over the world. In Algeria and Morocco we went to the "Souk," the Arabic word for "market" or "bazaar."

Picking the good stuff out of the trash at either one is like buying on eBay—it helps to know what you're doing. Like most of us, I learned the hard way, by experience. "Before you meet the handsome prince, you have to kiss a lot of frogs."

For tools, I looked for stuff marked "Made in USA" with a recognizable name brand like Thorsen, Proto, Craftsman, etc. In 1970, the "cheap" tools came from Japan and Taiwan; today it's China and other Asian countries. I spent a lot of time wandering the stalls, offering, bargaining, "I'm a poverty-stricken student" (true in 1970), occasionally spending a dollar or two. My prize was a set of ten (10) Bonney ignition wrenches for $2!

Jeremy

Jeremy, I know there used to be one back in El Cajon, but nothing here in Arizona. I just looked again, same as before.

Yes, made in U.S.A. is a good start. I have a pile of wrenches that came in the Squareback, and they are made in Japan I think, know maybe Taiwan, and one of my favorites due to weight and feel is India. They are from the 1970's to 1980's approximately, and bought by her and her bother when they were keeping up the Squareback.

That sounds like a deal! But, when do those actually become useful?

w123fanman · #12 03-10-2015, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adriel

That is the idea behind this thread!

Trouble is, all those brands are made in China, Twain, or India, and suspect them. My shop teacher drilled into me not skimp, as your body was at risk. He was even more so, and disliked Craftsman, preferring Snap-On.

Had a really weird experience this morning. I read your post, wondered where my breaker bar was, and what brand, as a gift from Vater. decided to put together my drafting chair I have had in storages for years, but not enough space for the drafting table and chair. Well, figured getting over my laptop be less pain, so got it out, and guess what was in the packaging? My breaker bar and its 3/4" to 1/2" adapter!

A bit rusted, but glad to have it back!

My breaker is a Craftsman, and have used it on a 6' extension with good results.

Yes, a shame, but will not buy anything more of them, unless I can put it my hand, check that it is made in the U.S.A., and be sure it is decent quality.

Where is Tekton made?

It seems to me that maybe a set of older Craftsman would be nice to have but the newer stuff is not as good as it has moved to being manufactured in China.

That being said, I am not afraid of Chinese-made tools nor would I buy a set of tools just because it was made in the US. The worst tools I have ever used were some US made tools that I inherited from my great-uncle. I forget the brands but they all had prominent "Made in the USA" labels, I'm guessing they were from the 70's or 80's.

I think the Tekton sockets are probably Chinese or Taiwanese but have glowing reviews. I've heard some of their stuff isn't any good but the impact sockets are supposed to be very good and affordable.

For another view on it, my mechanic told me and my friend that is training to be an automotive technician that his favorite is Matco. He thinks Snap-On wrenches and sockets are fine but does not like their ratchets, claims that he has had them fail several times on him. He likes to keep his chests to one brand, he's somewhat OCD with his job.

ROLLGUY · #13 03-11-2015, 01:15 AM

I did a brake job today on my friends E300 and used his tools and lift in his barn. Oh how I wish I brought my own tools! I had to squint and hold the Craftsman sockets up to the light to read the tiny engraved sizes. Besides them being hard to read, they were all 12 point. There is no need for a 12 point socket in automotive work, especially on high torque suspension and brake fasteners (caliper brackets etc.). It was so easy to have the socket slip off the bolt if not aligned just right. If I had my own tools, they would be color coded 6 point sockets. It does sound like I am complaining, but it is my own fault. I guess that is what I get for being lazy and not bringing my own tools- I have to suffer using the customers Craftsman tools :-(