Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > Mercedes-Benz Tech Information and Support > Diesel Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 08-03-2015, 01:17 AM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy

This might be a dragging post (like all my other ones) forgive me for the prolific detail, I like telling stories?


1992 Mercedes 300SD Turbodiesel


Have slowly been going through this junker 92 300SD and have been making progress. It's been running better with every little thing I do to it and it's the third rod bender parked by the house so I'm no stranger to the bender of the beams. I've got a few 3.0's hanging around in storage if this one has completely bit the bullet (the other two don't burn oil, both nearing 300k at the moment).

Anyway, the ole bender's covered 173k miles, I'm assuming original engine as I haven't crawled under the car to check for the reman tags. Doesn't leak a drop and everything is absolutely bone dry. Honestly I bought the car because it has a new trans, new injectors and it's old man tan (Impala Brown). It's too hot out to strip it down so I figured I might as well fix it up a bit and make a couple extra bucks to buy some more junk if I can sell it.


1992 Mercedes 300SD Turbodiesel


SO, with that out of the way:

Vacuum
The car is slow. Slow as in 0-60 in 10 years. Someone was playing with the vacuum system on the car and had it all wrong. It's now all entirely redone. Even got the reverse position prongs to pop up when going into reverse. No dice. Still slow with vacuum in order.

Shut off
Car doesn't shut off on it's own. Hit the key and it tries. Shut off valve holds vacuum and engages the lever perfectly. No problems there.

There's a shut off relay 0015429119 in the fuse box (if anyone is parting a W140, I'd like to buy this relay) - pulled that out, opened it and it has a blown track. Figured OK, soldered a bit of wire back in and tested the relay out. While plugging it in, the shut off solenoid make a click. Then a couple seconds in, the relay goes haywire and clicks rapidly non stop.

I check out the wiring to the solenoid and it's shot, somebody was screwing with the harness. I'm tempted to pull it and rebuild it, but it's beyond gone and someone did a hack job on it. If anyone is parting a W140 diesel, I'd like to buy your engine harness. It can be cracked too, as long as wire colors and such are easily visible and it complete. At this point I'm thinking this whole ordeal is just the harness shorted and is giving me ****. This leads me to the car being slow and having on odd shimmy.

The shimmy
At idle, if I crack open the injector lines at the injectors, 2 through 6 cause the engine to shake badly, good sign. If I crack injector #1, no change. I've found my missing cylinder, Bad sign. Fuel is getting to the injectors just fine. all injectors had a very light soot on them. I needed to replace the return lines so I pulled all the injectors to clean and adjust if needed via my pop tester - seller wasn't lying, they are new. Though, Bosch India's. All adjusted 135-140bar and perfect spray. Cool.

Prechambers were leaking some compression. #2 was choof choof choofing away while the engine was running. I only noticed them leaking because I was spraying around the area with brake cleaner to clean up before removing the injectors. Loosened the collar nuts and retorqued them. They were also fairly loose, which was odd. Hey, no more leaking prechambers, though.

Fuel filters are new. Fuel lines are good and not leaking air as best I can tell.

So now I have this miss on cylinder numero uno that I have to figure out. Luckily it's the easiest to get to. Compression testers at the other house, so if someone has one in the Chicago area I could use, that'd be cool. Don't feel like driving 6 hours for it.

I noticed the delivery valve retainer brackets aren't in place on the injection pump, telling me someone was messing about with the delivery valves. Would an incorrectly torqued/installed assembly on the injection pump cause a miss? Fuel is still being delivered and burned.

The engine has a miss up to a certain RPM range. That RPM range varies and is variable load. Once it's in the sweet spot, it runs like a damn dream! I was playing around with the wiring harness while looking at the shut off valve and I had the engine running. It seemed to smooth out immediately and had no shaking whatsoever.

Is there anything electrical on the injection pump that would cause this? As far as I know, rack position sensor is just for EGR flow, and I'm too foggy on whatever else I was looking at. My brain is infused with all things Datsun and OM617, 606 and every pre 2000 gasser engine. For some reason the 603 is the odd man out, which is stupid on my part because I've had nearly a dozen cars with this engine.

I also realized this car has a 38pin connector today. I can connect the old Mercedes HHT to the thing and see what codes come up! I'll post up tomorrow with the whole list of codes, that's going to be exciting.


Curious where you guys would start with this. I'll try and get some compression numbers in the coming days. Just to clear the air on that.

Thanks for reading/input.

__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-03-2015, 09:29 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmuwk View Post
I noticed the delivery valve retainer brackets aren't in place on the injection pump, telling me someone was messing about with the delivery valves. Would an incorrectly torqued/installed assembly on the injection pump cause a miss? Fuel is still being delivered and burned.
Yes. In addition, if someone has "fixed" that before, pray they didn't go any deeper than the DV holder / valve. If they did, then the pump may require calibration.
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-03-2015, 02:51 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
That's what I'm hoping isn't the case, but considering the lack of discipline in simply reinstalling the DV retainers I'll keep it on the list of things to check into. I think I have some seals hanging around that I'll go through and install. Hoping for the best on that front though.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:21 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Haven't done much to the car today other than drive it around a bit and I got the antenna working. Opened the antenna case up and it the white gears were just stuck. Rocked them a bit and broke them free and fed the antenna full extended by hand. Wiped down the mast with WD40 and liberally applied white lithium grease on the gears and nylon mast line and all is well.

Took her on the highway - paint dries faster than this get's up to 60. Cruises happily at 70.

Scanned the car with the HHT and got the following from various systems:

EDS
- 005 Vacuum Transducer, fault in exh. gas control loop

ABS
- 003 RPM Sensor RF L6/2

ASD
- 005 VSS Sensor RF L6/2 - // - Open Circuit

RCL
- 002 LR Door Actuator S47 - // - Open Circuit

CF
- 038 Sliding/Pop up roof S13/2, M12, N57

PSE
- 005 Orthopedic Backrest Air Demand Too High


The only thing engine related is that vacuum transducer. ABS/ASD lights have been on since I got the thing so I'm not surprised a wheel sensor is dead. I'm happy it's just a sensor - I think I've got one in the garage somewhere, if not I'll get one from a junkyard car.


I'm going to whip out the old pump lock tool and see where the injection pump is timed. If someone went so far as to play with the delivery valves, who knows if they were messing with the injection pump timing.

This thing is far too slow. I've driven rodbenders with terribly ovaled cylinders and they were still faster than this (although many of the blue smokes were happening haha). I've got some pics attached of a taster of what the HHT was showing me.
Attached Thumbnails
OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4195.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4196.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4197.jpg  
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-03-2015, 11:54 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Also figure I'd mention, doing the oil cap blow by test, there's is no blow by whatsoever. A slight mist, if anything.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-04-2015, 08:59 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,778
The EDS fault sounds like the EGR circuit, which can cut out the turbo I believe, or interrupt the ALDA pressure signal. I'll bet that is the majority of your low power issue. Maybe someone unplugged the vacuum line, or plugged it thinking they would get a cleaner intake system and more power? I think even adding a block off plate to the EGR will cause the "limp home" mode, you need to get more creative / complicated to eliminate the EGR on that engine.
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-04-2015, 06:19 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Alright, so I pulled the injectors again to check how they were looking and pop tested them again "in case". I'm glad I did.

My dead cylinder (#1) was giving me around 170bar. Which is nuts, that's quite a large retard in injection timing on that one cylinder. All the others were still at the 135-140bar I set them too. I took apart the injector and there was a bit of debris that somehow lodged itself between the spring and shim. Cleaned it out, popped it, started the car -

Hallelujah, no more dead cylinder at idle. Engine revs much more smoothly and much more rapidly, though it's still slow.

Going to look everything over and see what's going on with the vacuum transducer a bit later on.

I'll strike it as a victory for today.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-06-2015, 01:59 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
I got a bit impatient last night and with a beer or three by me, I removed the engine harness (10 minutes) and rebuilt it (5 hours). All new wires, new plugs (I have a stockpile of them), and I reused the metal pins everywhere. All in all, I'm surprised anything was working correctly on the engine, wires were intertwined and somebody had a field day with electrical tape trying to solve some problems. Now I can start diagnosing any electrical problems the car is having, namely shutting off. It "seems" to run and start a bit better now, though it's probably just my butt scanner thinking the new harness actually might have done something positive.

I don't have any pictures of the harness I built (regretfully), but here are a bunch of pictures of the harness as I was digging into it and separating wires.

Now I have to figure out why the Shut Off Relay on the car is clicking. Joy.
Attached Thumbnails
OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-071012_cookie_monster_featured120710144306.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-11231257_10207470780985668_2974225963681060991_n.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4194.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4195.jpg   OM603.971 - shimmy shimmy shimmy-img_4196.jpg  

__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-06-2015, 03:35 PM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,778
Wow, that is UGLY!!!!

I think just about every relay or sensitive component connected to that harness is suspect at this point, but you'll just have to troubleshoot it to get to the bottom.
__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-06-2015, 10:42 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Tell me about it! When I started digging through the MB harness goop I thought mice had attacked everything.

My main focus is the shut off system, considering the car doesn't shut off on it's own. The shut off solenoid, when energized, works correctly and the shut off valve on the pump itself shuts the engine down and holds vacuum perfectly (even considering it's the old metal style).

I noticed a faint clicking sound coming from the fuse box and when I dug in deeper, the shut off relay itself was clicking. I took it apart and found a part of the armature contact missing - by missing I mean burnt to a crisp.

I found only one on eBay, in Latvia, for some dollars and change, so we'll see where that takes us. I'm not willing to swap parts with my perfect running W140's as then I'll have two cars to fix rather than one.

Just waiting on the part now.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-07-2015, 07:10 AM
jay_bob's Avatar
Control Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 3,902
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmuwk View Post
I got a bit impatient last night and with a beer or three by me, I removed the engine harness (10 minutes) and rebuilt it (5 hours). All new wires, new plugs (I have a stockpile of them), and I reused the metal pins everywhere. All in all, I'm surprised anything was working correctly on the engine, wires were intertwined and somebody had a field day with electrical tape trying to solve some problems. Now I can start diagnosing any electrical problems the car is having, namely shutting off. It "seems" to run and start a bit better now, though it's probably just my butt scanner thinking the new harness actually might have done something positive.

I don't have any pictures of the harness I built (regretfully), but here are a bunch of pictures of the harness as I was digging into it and separating wires.

Now I have to figure out why the Shut Off Relay on the car is clicking. Joy.
The engine harness in my 87 is somewhat crispy - not near as bad as yours - but still I would like to rebuild it. Where did you get the wire?
__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)
2008 ML320 CDI (Older sonís DD)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
----------
gone but living on
1983 240D (body to greazzer, engine to t walgamuth)
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-07-2015, 07:22 AM
jay_bob's Avatar
Control Freak
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Columbia, SC
Posts: 3,902
And another thing - have you considered putting that HHT in the tool rental forum?
__________________
The OM 642/722.9 powered family
2014 ML350 Bluetec (wife's DD)
2013 E350 Bluetec (my DD)
2008 ML320 CDI (Older sonís DD)
2008 E320 Bluetec (Younger son's DD)

1998 E300DT sold to TimFreeh
1987 300TD sold to vstech
----------
gone but living on
1983 240D (body to greazzer, engine to t walgamuth)
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-07-2015, 11:28 AM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
The engine harness in my 87 is somewhat crispy - not near as bad as yours - but still I would like to rebuild it. Where did you get the wire?
Not sure if it'd help you, but I got a few rolls of wire from a store near me called American Science and Surplus. If you have something similar to you, I've found that to be the best place to get wire as any other supplier is ridiculously overpriced. Getting a few different color's, IMO, too much work. I got black and red in 10 gauge. A bit overboard on wire size, but hey, better than what was in there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jay_bob View Post
And another thing - have you considered putting that HHT in the tool rental forum?
You know, I've thought about it, but it's too valuable to me to be sending around. It took me forever to find it, took me forever to buy it, and letting it go off somewhere into the unknown is a bit sketchy to me. If anyone is in the Chicago area, they're more than welcome to stop by and plug their cars in!
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-11-2015, 04:46 PM
bsmuwk's Avatar
124.051
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL / WI
Posts: 1,011
Well, got my compression tester down and since this morning was fairly cool and breezy I decided to get that intake off and get at it. I did some errand running to get the engine nice and hot (FSM says 60-80*C for test). Parked it and 15-20 minutes later I've got the intake off and ready to do the test.

Cyl #1 400 psi
Cyl #2 120 psi
Cyl #3 380 psi
Cyl #4 385 psi
Cyl #5 400 psi
Cyl #6 390 psi

Welllll, it's not as hot as I though it was going to be and I don't feel like digging into this any further, so it's being relegated to parts car again. Oh well. it's got 3/4 tank of diesel so I'll drive it out and start stripping her and add another data plate to the collection.
__________________
Allen Kroliczek
Oak Grove Autosport | Oak Grove Autosport
01 G500, 82 300TD, quite a few more.....
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-12-2015, 10:41 AM
Diesel Preferred
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Charleston SC
Posts: 2,778
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsmuwk View Post
Cyl #1 400 psi
Cyl #2 120 psi
Cyl #3 380 psi
Cyl #4 385 psi
Cyl #5 400 psi
Cyl #6 390 psi
Ouch, that would explain things.

Have you considered a leak-down test to identify if the issue is valves or rings?

I'm sure you know the head and injection pump are worth a bit, and other parts as well if you decide to sell off the parts.

__________________
Respectfully,
/s/
M. Dillon
'87 124.193 (300TD) "White Whale", ~392k miles, 3.5l IP fitted
'95 124.131 (E300) "Sapphire", 380k miles
'73 Balboa 20 "Sanctification"
Charleston SC
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:39 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page