One of the rarest of the rare Diesel 123's - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #16 08-13-2016, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Please also post some details of how the conversion was accomplished. RE: How the rear doors were stretched , quarter panel, floor shape.

Given the shape of the rear glass, I'd say it is a rear door from a 4 door with a 2 door skin / latch panel or even the rear of a front door.

I'd also tend to think that it is more or less a 4 door front with a 2 door rear as was common with other brands of "factory" limos rather than a 4 door stretched.

This was not a conversion, it is all factory made. I believe some of the earlier models were done by Binz (not Benz). They made many different styles including ambulances, limousines, hearses etc.

97 SL320 · #17 08-14-2016, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

This was not a conversion, it is all factory made. I believe some of the earlier models were done by Binz (not Benz). They made many different styles including ambulances, limousines, hearses etc.

Yes, I realize that. My point is it is doubtful the factory is going to make a multitude of special stamping dies for the very low production "factory" limo. They most likely use modified stock or hand made parts, that is what I want to find out.

An example of a possible part would be the floor. Rather than cutting a 4 door floor and adding metal, using the front of a 4 door floor and rear of a 2 door floor would allow 1 weld instead of 2.

t walgamuth · #18 08-14-2016, 09:34 AM

Based on all the hand work involved in making a coupe 123 from sedan stampings I'd say they started with nearly all "standard" parts and sliced and diced, patched in and reinforced to create the limo.

If you were restoring one you'd just have to look at what is there and figure out what cars it was made from.

sixto · #19 08-14-2016, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

Yes, I realize that. My point is it is doubtful the factory is going to make a multitude of special stamping dies for the very low production "factory" limo. They most likely use modified stock or hand made parts, that is what I want to find out.

"very low production" is relative. Bodied LWB production was in the tens of thousands and likely even more for open cab commercial chassis (think Cadillac Series 75). The LWB is fully represented in the EPC.

Sixto
83 300SD

t walgamuth · #20 08-14-2016, 11:43 AM

I don't follow your middle sentence Sixto. Would you mind elaborating a bit?

sixto · #21 08-14-2016, 12:25 PM

While uncommon in the US, MB produced tens of thousands of factory bodied LWB 3-row sedans, plus at least that many more cab and chassis platforms for coach works like Binz to continue into 6-door sedans, ambulances, hearses, etc.

Sixto
83 300SD

t walgamuth · #22 08-14-2016, 12:33 PM

Gotcha! Thanks!

97 SL320 · #23 08-14-2016, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixto

"very low production" is relative. Bodied LWB production was in the tens of thousands and likely even more for open cab commercial chassis (think Cadillac Series 75). The LWB is fully represented in the EPC.

Sixto
83 300SD

I was basing the low production on what post 1 said:

" My friend is restoring an extremely rare 123 Limo. These were factory produced, and not in large quantities. "

He then goes on to state that only 5 were diesel powered.

I took to mean: The 123 limo was factory produced but not in large quantities and only 5 of that batch were diesel powered.

I'd hardly call 10 or thousands low quantities and at that volume I'd expect some special dies being made with maybe a bit of hand with here and there.

And yes, before ambulances moved to van / truck chassis, the Caddy commercial chassis was common. ( Other makes made similar stuff too. )
www.professionalcarsociety.org

t walgamuth · #24 08-14-2016, 03:39 PM

Caddy offered the limo complete with body I believe at least in the early fifties. That was a 145" wheelbase iirc.

They also offered the commercial chassis which was used mainly for funeral and amublance coaches. The commercial chassis came with doghouse and windshield I believe and it had a 156" wheelbase.

The limo and the commercial chassis came with a 2" or so wider rear axle too and in the sedan was 331 ratio, if stick, 308 if hydramatic iirc, the limo 390 and the commercial 427 ratio.

I used to be into caddies and owned two commercial chassis and four or five sedans. From 50 to 53. They were very high quality cars then.

After 53 they got bigger and bigger and they scrunched down the driving position and turned the frame into spagetti limp and I lost interest.

I had a really nice original 53 model 62 sedan with 70,000 miles. It had big competent brakes and got decent fuel economy. It was pastel yellow with a black top. The only thing it lacked compared to 80s cars (at the time I owned it) was cornering ability.

The 51 hearse I had had manual steering and a three speed stick. It had 40 some thousand miles and was very nice. It was an awesome road car, better than a benz even, but plan ahead for parking as it was nearly impossible to turn while sitting still.

It was black with an enormous white steering wheel.

sixto · #25 08-14-2016, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 97 SL320

I took to mean: The 123 limo was factory produced but not in large quantities and only 5 of that batch were diesel powered.

I took that to be that only 5 were turbodiesels. I've seen more than 5 LWB 300Ds at the same time.

IIRC the LWB 300D without turbo I s a 123.132. It would be something like a 123.134 or .135 with turbo since we all know what a .133 is.

Sixto
83 300SD