A/C hose material - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

funola · #1 09-18-2016, 08:23 AM

Anyone know what material the inner tube of the original AC hoses as it came from the factory was made of for W123? That is what the OP wants to know. He is not interested in using R134a nor will he be crimping on new hoses. He wants to use the original hoses with Red Tek 12a refrigerant.

pilot53 · #2 09-18-2016, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Anyone know what material the inner tube of the original AC hoses as it came from the factory was made of for W123? That is what the OP wants to know. He is not interested in using R134a nor will he be crimping on new hoses. He wants to use the original hoses with Red Tek 12a refrigerant.

^ This. I wish people would read the thread before posting.

ROLLGUY · #3 09-18-2016, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot53

^ This. I wish people would read the thread before posting.

I believe that refrigerant is the same as Freeze 12, and is a blend of 134a and others. Obviously it is touted as an r12 replacement, so any older car that would use r12 may have the same kind of hoses that MB used. That would cause me to assume that that refrigerant is compatible with the hoses in all cars made in that era that used r12. I know that did not answer your original question, but there is a possibility that your question can't be answered here without just speculating.

ROLLGUY · #4 09-18-2016, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Anyone know what material the inner tube of the original AC hoses as it came from the factory was made of for W123? That is what the OP wants to know. He is not interested in using R134a nor will he be crimping on new hoses. He wants to use the original hoses with Red Tek 12a refrigerant.

I will also add that if he is not interested in using 134a, then he should not be using any other refrigerant other than R12, as the refrigerant he is asking about has 134a in it.

funola · #5 09-18-2016, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I will also add that if he is not interested in using 134a, then he should not be using any other refrigerant other than R12, as the refrigerant he is asking about has 134a in it.

Can you provide links that show Red Tek 12a has R134a in it?

http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_prod.html

http://www.redtek.com/win_12a_refintro.html

ROLLGUY · #6 09-18-2016, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Can you provide links that show Red Tek 12a has R134a in it?

RED TEK - 12a Refrigerant

RED TEK - 12a Refrigerant

I stand corrected. Redtek is a hydrocarbon refrigerant. The article I read lumped all the refrigerant blends together, so I assumed redtek and freeze 12 were the same, only sold by a different name. However, doing more research, I would not suggest anyone use anything other than 134a or r12 in their mobile A/C system. The main problem with all blends is that they can't be recycled (illegal to do so), nor can they be vented. Most if not all HC refrigerants are propane and/or butane. Despite what they say on their website, HC refrigerants have no business being used in mobile A/C systems in my opinion. I found this about freeze12, most important is the last part:

Thinking about using Freeze-12 refrigerant?

You may be surprised to learn that it is nothing more than a blend of R134a and HCFC 142.

Most of the "alternative" refrigerants are really nothing more than a slightly different blend with a fancy can. If you are unlucky, you actually get propane, butane, or some other flammable gas.

ALTERNATIVE REFRIGERANT BLENDS

Free Zone (RB-276). Supplied by Refrigerant Gases, this blend contains 79% R-134a, 19% HCFC-142b and 2% lubricant.
Freeze 12. Supplied by Technical Chemical, this blend contains 80% R-134a and 20% HCFC-142b.
FRIGC (FR-12). Made by Intermagnetics General and marketed by Pennzoil, this blend contains 59% R-134a, 39% HCFC-124 and 2% butane.
GHG-X4 (Autofrost & McCool Chill-It). This blend is supplied by Peoples Welding Supply and contains 51% R-22, 28.5% HCFC-124, 16.5% HCFC-142b and 4% isobutane (R-600a).
GHG-HP. Also supplied by Peoples Welding Supply, this blend contains 65% R-22, 31% HCFC-142b and 4% isobutane (R-600a).
Hot Shot\Kar Kool. Supplied by ICOR, this blend contains 50% R-22, 39% HCFC-124, 9.5% HCFC-142b and 1.5% isobutane (R-600a).
The suppliers of the alternative blends say their products typically cool better than straight R-134a in systems designed for R-12, and do not require changing the compressor oil or desiccant in some cases. Changing the desiccant to XH-7 is usually recommended if an R-12 system is converted to R-134a. The desiccant should also be replaced if a blend contains R-22 because R-22 is not compatible with XH-5 or XH-7 desiccant. The recommended desiccant in this case would be XH-9.

The suppliers of the alternative blends also insist the fractionation problem is exaggerated and do not foresee any major problems with recovering and recycling their products (recycling blends is currently illegal, but the EPA is reviewing its feasibility).

As it stands right now, recycling and servicing a system filled with an alternative blend is illegal.

Please, the best refrigerant to use is the one it was designed for.

pilot53 · #7 09-18-2016, 08:49 PM

Im not concerned with all the legal nonsense and I do my own work, I can recover a/c using my equipment anyway, and even if I didn't, venting a hydrocarbon refrigerant is no different than starting your propane grill. I don't want to use freeze12, I'm asking about r12a which is a hydrocarbon refrigerant compatible with r12 systems, it has nothing but high purity butane and propane in it. The good thing about HC refrigerants is they don't need higher pressures like 134, they dont eat old r12 o rings, they are compatible with all oils, they cool like r12 does, and they don't need barrier hose. The problem is redtek's site states that you cannot use with butyl rubber hoses. I want to know if our cars have butyl rubber hoses or not.

funola · #8 09-18-2016, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot53

Im not concerned with all the legal nonsense and I do my own work, I can recover a/c using my equipment anyway, and even if I didn't, venting a hydrocarbon refrigerant is no different than starting your propane grill. I don't want to use freeze12, I'm asking about r12a which is a hydrocarbon refrigerant compatible with r12 systems, it has nothing but high purity butane and propane in it. The good thing about HC refrigerants is they don't need higher pressures like 134, they dont eat old r12 o rings, they are compatible with all oils, they cool like r12 does, and they don't need barrier hose. The problem is redtek's site states that you cannot use with butyl rubber hoses. I want to know if our cars have butyl rubber hoses or not.

Red Tek 12a sounds interesting. I'd like to hear how it performs for you. If your hoses look ok on the outside, i.e. not bulging, and where it attaches to the ferules look good without separating, the hoses are most likely fine and not leaking. But the only way to be 100% certain is to pressure test each hose by itself. I would suggest replacing all the o-rings since they are old and shrunken/ deformed/ not sealing well. If you are not replacing the R4 with a new and reusing the old, I'd suggest resealing it also since it has o-rings also and a shaft seal which should be replaced with a lower leak rate double lip seal.

BillGrissom · #9 09-21-2016, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot53

... I don't want to use freeze12, I'm asking about r12a which is a hydrocarbon refrigerant compatible with r12 systems, it has nothing but high purity butane and propane in it. ...

Aren't Freeze12, Red Tec 12a, Enviro-safe, and Duracool all similar HC mixtures? I have used the later since ~1997 in my 65 Newport and now in all my vehicles, incl the minivans after compressor replacements. Duracool is from Canada, and I think more common there. I wouldn't retrofit R-134A today since outlawed for years in many countries and soon to be in the U.S., so you would soon be relying on recovery stock, and perhaps prices rising like it did for Freon. New cars use R1234yc or CO2. The former has safety concerns (read M-B export to France issue) and the later requires extreme pressures, which could lead to expensive repairs in the future. But, the EPA long ago dissed HC refrigerants for somewhat absurd reasons, which you can read on their website. They even outlaw venting HC refrigerant, though cows do that all day long.

pilot53 · #10 09-22-2016, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillGrissom

Aren't Freeze12, Red Tec 12a, Enviro-safe, and Duracool all similar HC mixtures? I have used the later since ~1997 in my 65 Newport and now in all my vehicles, incl the minivans after compressor replacements. Duracool is from Canada, and I think more common there. I wouldn't retrofit R-134A today since outlawed for years in many countries and soon to be in the U.S., so you would soon be relying on recovery stock, and perhaps prices rising like it did for Freon. New cars use R1234yc or CO2. The former has safety concerns (read M-B export to France issue) and the later requires extreme pressures, which could lead to expensive repairs in the future. But, the EPA long ago dissed HC refrigerants for somewhat absurd reasons, which you can read on their website. They even outlaw venting HC refrigerant, though cows do that all day long.

RedTek and duracool are both basically the same, highly refined butane and propane, freeze12 is a mixture of r134 and something else, not sure but not an HC refrigerant. Im more comfortable putting r12a in an r12 system than freeze12. Im not sure about envirosafe, but I think its HC. Best thing though it to just use r12, I found a bunch on craigslist and that is what I will be putting back into the car.

funola · #11 09-18-2016, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

.............
As it stands right now, recycling and servicing a system filled with an alternative blend is illegal.
.....

Can you provide a credible link that states that? You can buy alternative blend refrigerants, yet it is illegal to service it? Something not jiving here.

ROLLGUY · #12 09-18-2016, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funola

Can you provide a credible link that states that? You can buy alternative blend refrigerants, yet it is illegal to service it? Something not jiving here.

Even though that is not my quote (I just found the info on a site about Freeze 12), I believe it to be true. All shops (at least the reputable ones) will work with R12 and 134a only, and only have and are certified to use equipment for same. They are supposed to analyze the refrigerant before recovering it so their equipment and refrigerant supply does not contaminate other vehicles from the blended refrigerant. The tech at the shop I use calls it "refrigerant harpies" (refrigerant that has been contaminated with a "blend"). I for one am glad the shop I use will not allow their refrigerant supply to get contaminated, as I use them often. I know that I am getting pure refrigerant, and not a blend of anything else. I would have to agree that Redtek and other HC refrigerants can be vented legally and ethically. However, blends such as Freeze12 and the like should not.
Also, I have read that alternative refrigerants (including HC) are for replacement only, and NOT to be used for "topping off".

funola · #13 09-19-2016, 09:37 AM

Back to OP's original question. I heard back from Codan. Here's their reply. Sounds like he is not certain about his answer, but it's a start. I've asked him to verify his info. NBR is Nitrile Buna Rubber, aka Nitrile or Nitrile Buna

"Info
4:15 AM (5 hours ago)
Reply
to me
Hi

Hose is not produced for many many years.

Could be an NBR inside.

Hans Andersen
Codan Rubber Danmark A/S
Mobile device
www.codan.com"