Diesel Particulate Filter - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ROLLGUY · #16 02-03-2020, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

About my issue with my DPF, according to MB it was supposed to have an automatic regeneration when DPF is dirt. I asked a Diesel mechanic why it did not happened and his answer was "I don't know".
Is there any possible cause why the regeneration did not happened?
This diesel mechanic tried for three times to clean the DPF but, he said, unsuccessful. He said that the car is running a little better but not as supposed to run.
Any idea about regeneration?

If the DPF was not removed for cleaning, and just the DPF liquid cleaner sprayed in, it will not get clean. Commercial DPF cleaning companies use high pressure water/cleaner. A pressure washer and the cleaner work great for the DIY type of guy.....Rich

ROLLGUY · #17 02-03-2020, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tdoublenastywitit

I have a somewhat off topic question. But do all of the 2007 and 2008 e320 bluetecs not use def fluid? I was under the impression they all did after 2006.

I believe DEF started in 2009 for the E class, not sure about the other chassis'.

barry12345 · #18 02-03-2020, 10:14 PM

Once so much ash accumulates they will not burn out. Ash is the component left after a burnout. Obviously over time it accumulates. It is what the cleaning while off the vehicle tries to eliminate. Remember that Mercedes cheated just as Volkswagon did.

The cheat was the egr only operates if the vehicle determines it is not driving. When the system decides the car is operational. The egr stays closed under all operational conditions. So an egr valve defective and open all the time should have some effect on the DEF filter and to carbon buildup in some engine components.

Why the cheat originally? Too many claims under warranty for removing carbon buildup.

I did not check it out but there is a federal mandated warranty on any pollution equipment in both Canada and America. I suspect 10 years. Changing the DEF filter on volkswagons was expected at 120,000 miles. Since many diesels go more than 12K miles a year. I wonder if Volkswagon called it a maintenance item and charged. On those cars that were under the time limit.

I may have the 10 year figure wrong. I just know the manufacturer has to warranty all polution control items for some time after the regular warranty. That to me is why the have our volkswagons first check for the DEFs condition at 120K. It gets changed out if the ash buildup percentage is beyond a certain amount. Obviously if you wait for the 120k check and the car is older than 10 years. You pay. I will pay a dealer to check it just shy of 120k as I expect the car to reach it before the ten years. If the ash is over the limit I will try for a free replacement. I do not think they can charge me in that circumstance. They do call it a maintenance item in their literature.

My trust of Volkswagon is very limited. If something is a day or a mile over warranty. They will not bend even if it is obvious the condition has been there for some time. The buy back warranty has a clause in it that is very unusual for that company. The benefit of any situation must favor the customer. People that have not argued with volkswagons customer service before. Do not realize how unusual that provision is.

nyko46 · #19 02-03-2020, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

If the DPF was not removed for cleaning, and just the DPF liquid cleaner sprayed in, it will not get clean. Commercial DPF cleaning companies use high pressure water/cleaner. A pressure washer and the cleaner work great for the DIY type of guy.....Rich

Thanks for your reply.
This is what I will do; ask the mechanic to give me the DPF and I will have it cleaned at home. My time is very limited to be working under the car specially now wit the cold weather in Texas.
Mechanic asked me $2900.00 for a new DPF (part only). My local MB dealer sell it for $2000.00.
I want to save this money.
Thanks

barry12345 · #20 02-03-2020, 11:03 PM

If the code once cleared pops back up for the egr. When you have re installed the DEF. After you have cleared it. Repair it sooner than later.

Volkswagon for general interest could not totally clear up the problem. Leaving the car really serviceable as well.

So the government deal was not requiring them to meet normal current compliance. Just reducing the pollution levels to some degree specified. Between the parties. In other words the wives modified diesel buy back could not meet a real current pollution testing.

They added some constant egr action and upped the ad blue use rate. The add blue deals with reducing the oxides of nitrogen. No hardware changes at all.

jay_bob · #21 02-04-2020, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROLLGUY

I believe DEF started in 2009 for the E class, not sure about the other chassis'.

I have 4 OM642 vehicles

2008 E320 Bluetec no AdBlue

2008 ML320 CDI no AdBlue

2013 E350 Bluetec has AdBlue (tank in the trunk where spare should be, car has MOe run flat tires)

2014 ML350 Bluetec has AdBlue (tank below vehicle, fill port is next to fuel filler, has normal tires and a donut spare)

nyko46 · #22 02-04-2020, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay_bob

I have 4 OM642 vehicles

2008 E320 Bluetec no AdBlue

2008 ML320 CDI no AdBlue

2013 E350 Bluetec has AdBlue (tank in the trunk where spare should be, car has MOe run flat tires)

2014 ML350 Bluetec has AdBlue (tank below vehicle, fill port is next to fuel filler, has normal tires and a donut spare)

I had one 2009 E320 Bluetec but also no AdBlue.
My 2008 E320 Bluetec also does not have AdBlue.
My question still"why the filter got clogged if the ECU is supposed take care to tell the engine to burn hotter and get the soot burned."
About the same DPF, does someone knows the MB part number for the DPF?
I called some MB dealership parts dept.but they will not give the OEM part number and some of them are confusing DPF with Catalytic Converter.
If you have, please let me know.

pawoSD · #23 02-04-2020, 08:15 PM

When the soot gets burned off during a DPF regen, the end result is a little bit of ash, which ends up accumulating in the DPF over time. Normally to reach "capacity" this should take in excess of 100,000 miles for a car driven a normal driving cycle. Even if the DPF costs $950-1600 or thereabouts if it has to be replaced entirely.....that cost over 100,000+ miles is pretty small....not even 1.5 cents per 100 miles driven.

The adblue fluid also lasts for ages. My GLK seems to only use about 5-6 gallons per 15,000 miles....less than $25 worth (from the dealer)

nyko46 · #24 02-04-2020, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

When the soot gets burned off during a DPF regen, the end result is a little bit of ash, which ends up accumulating in the DPF over time. Normally to reach "capacity" this should take in excess of 100,000 miles for a car driven a normal driving cycle. Even if the DPF costs $950-1600 or thereabouts if it has to be replaced entirely.....that cost over 100,000+ miles is pretty small....not even 1.5 cents per 100 miles driven.

The adblue fluid also lasts for ages. My GLK seems to only use about 5-6 gallons per 15,000 miles....less than $25 worth (from the dealer)

Then the best way to keep the car running up to date the correct is change the DPF. Your numbers makes sense.

ROLLGUY · #25 02-04-2020, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

Then the best way to keep the car running up to date the correct is change the DPF. Your numbers makes sense.

Or save a bunch of $ and DIY clean it.

barry12345 · #26 02-05-2020, 11:01 AM

Properly cleaned and if it passes a flow test. The ceramic matrix inside may be as good as new. Unless there has been some form of change in the matrix. That should be indicated by the flow test.

In my mind someone should set up a proper cleaning service. Where after the cleaning full flow in comparison to new examples is restored.

By a flow test for volume estimated by back pressure. It is problematic though as many conditions not found or addressed may mean premature problems with particle filters.

I read where one Volkswagon owner had multiple changes in short order. Perhaps the car had a condition they did not detect. I read up extensively before purchasing a car for the wife. With a DPF. Some Americans were past 180,000 miles with no issues. I thought a lot of longer highway use was probable.

What observations of the wives car have been. Until the engine warms up there is a substantial amount of fuel being used. This may be why only short around town trips are not the best ideal. There may be a lot more than average byproducts of combustion the DEF has to deal with. So obviously it builds more ash faster.

Also when I hit the Volkswagon parts guy at a dealership for cheaper prices. It takes five liters of base oil. He said buy six as some need topped up between changes.

Then he gave the game away is suspect. He said some turbo seals leak a little. So after an oil check just before the change was needed again. I checked the dipstick. The wives car is not burning any oil it appears. The place on the dipstick was the same for all common sense purposes as when the oil was first changed.

I of course use a low ash oil. At the same time if there seems to be no oil burnt. It really should not matter in my mind. If normal or low ash oil is used. I also wondered if most use is highway if some of the ash produced might get blown through the DEf filter and out the tailpipe.

It also looks like some dealerships may be getting confused at times. Symptoms that do not look like the DEF filter but are only eventually resolved when it is changed.

As for the mechanic the poster is using. If your retail was 2000 for the part from Mercedes. Your mechanic can get it cheaper from them. So my guess he was marking up the part by over a thousand dollars if he quoted you 2,900 for the part. Ethical or not I cannot say but it seems high to me on that part.

As a last thought spontainious regenerations on the highway may be easier on the matrix rather than forced. The length of high temperature involvement may be shorter. Where a forced regeneration is like adding a blowtorch in there. Once triggered it may continue to run well after all the soot has burnt.

pawoSD · #27 02-05-2020, 07:52 PM

I was able to find the DPF for my GLK online for only $900, which is way less than dealer prices. If I have to throw on a $900 dpf every 90-100,000 miles I'll be just fine with that.

I got lucky and mine was replaced right before the 80k warranty was up on it. They also changed a sensor and a wire harness in the process....which normally I don't think is covered but they did anyways.

They can't all be cleaned. Depends on the condition of the particular example after the cleaning process is completed.

nyko46 · #28 02-05-2020, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I was able to find the DPF for my GLK online for only $900, which is way less than dealer prices. If I have to throw on a $900 dpf every 90-100,000 miles I'll be just fine with that.

I got lucky and mine was replaced right before the 80k warranty was up on it. They also changed a sensor and a wire harness in the process....which normally I don't think is covered but they did anyways.

They can't all be cleaned. Depends on the condition of the particular example after the cleaning process is completed.

That is a good news. Where did you buy for that price?
Couple Mercedes Benz shop that I talked with say that is not easy to find DPF for E320 Bluetec Sedan.Searching online I found a lot but for Sprinter.
I am trying to find the MB part number for that filter and sensors but was no luck. Called dealers but they do not give their part number.

pawoSD · #29 02-05-2020, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyko46

That is a good news. Where did you buy for that price?
Couple Mercedes Benz shop that I talked with say that is not easy to find DPF for E320 Bluetec Sedan.Searching online I found a lot but for Sprinter.
I am trying to find the MB part number for that filter and sensors but was no luck. Called dealers but they do not give their part number.

I didn't actually have to order it, I was just shopping around to see what they cost. It was an online MB dealer selling parts I believe. They can be located if you look around enough.

The part number for a rebuilt DPF for a 2008 Bluetec is 211-490-07-81-80

I found one for $756 on a MB dealer site.

barry12345 · #30 02-07-2020, 12:48 PM

Is rebuilt just cleaned and tested? Or the old matrix removed and replaced? I think Volkswagon dealers do want the exchange cores back. Non dealer volkswagon ad I checked. Wanted 400.00 core charge until they receive it. Plus a disclaimer if core could not be reused you lose the core charge.

My guess and it is only a guess. Automatic highway regenerations. Are likely not as hot as the forced ones. Where raw fuel is introduced.

A little more time should answer a few questions. Since I believe the matrix is made of ceramic. It may tolerate a controlled acid bath. There may be some exotic metals in there as a percentage of the ceramic or passage coated to aid ignition of the soot.

There also was the nagging quote that some cannot be cleaned. With no reasons given. Just limited informatiom picked up on the volkswagon TDI site. There may be more to find there.