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  #1  
Old 11-22-2002, 02:28 AM
KeithG
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Get that 300D Turbo out of left field!

I am rescuing an '84 300D Turbo in great condition from it's parking spot of 2 years. Supposedly it ran fine when parked, but now I'm having difficulty. We charged the battery, poured 5gal. in the tank, and after a few tries it fired, ran for 30 sec., then I blipped the throttle and it died. A few tries and chargings later, still no dice. We eventually discovered the hand pump, but it leaks so badly, I don't see it doing much good. We then cracked th injector lines and cranked it over trying to bleed them out, but get only bubbles. One mechanic advisor has suggested removing the tank screen and potentially the tank and even fuel lines, to rid them of algae as there was very little fuel (if any) left in the tank while it sat. Another has suggested it may be related to condensation in the tank/lines and we should bleed the water out of the primary fuel filter. The fuel in the pre-filter looks fine though so I am skeptical, and yet, it will not start. Tomorrow we'll begin at the tank screen and go from there. If anyone has experienced this type of situation or has pertinent information of any kind, suggestions or whatever, I'm all ears. One other thing, I removed the rubber intake duct from the Turbo to see if it spun freely. While it was completly frozen at first, we gently applied pressure until it began to move. Now it spins more or less freely. Should I be worried about this? Thanks for everything, Keith

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  #2  
Old 11-22-2002, 09:21 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Puyallup, Washington
Posts: 57
I purchased an 81 300SD car that was parked under a tree for 4 years last January for $1000---the experience has been bitter sweet. Yes, the worst thing you can do to any machinery is to let it sit for exactly the reasons Tank mentioned. My car's color is cream/yellow which buffed out like new. The interior was in average condition, but with clean up and leather conditioner it is now a good 8 out of 10. The car needed all new calipers and pads, new tires, new battery, new hood release cable, pan gasket, all fluids flushed and replaced, new injectors and a valve adjustment. I have been too afraid to add up the receipts! After the valves were adjusted, they turned a little against the valve seats and because of the crud build up, they would not seal properly. I drove the car for 5k miles and then took it back for a valve job. The seals were completly shot---the worst the mechanic had seen in years. Had so much blow-by that the air filter was completly impregnated with oil after the 5k. At this point, I could probably sell it for about what I put into it. However, I have a great running and reliable car and have not regreted the purchase. A bit of a project, but now I have something I am proud to drive
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Elliott Fager

1977 240D Hell Blau (Verkauft)
1981 240D Weiss (Gestorben)
1984 300D Dunkel Rot (Verkauft)
1982 240D Dunkel Blau (225k) "Panzer Wagen"
1981 300SD Beige (175k) "Kampfwagen"
1981 300SD Beige (205K) "Panzerkampwagen"
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  #3  
Old 11-22-2002, 10:14 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central Oregon
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Congratualtions on the find Keith. Is there anothr one sitting out there under an oak tree maybe, I'm in the market...

One thing that I have found on cars that have either sat for extended periods or had folks trying to start them using evils like ether is tha the cylinder walls have become washed down or dried and lost some of their seal with the rings.

Pull the glow plugs and using a piece of tubing on an oil can shoot a tablespoon or so of 15/40 or atf into the holes. Let it sit for an hour or so, turn the engine over a couple fo times.
shoot another tablespoon or so into each cylinger. This time let it sit overnight. The anticipation will kill you but they have to sit in order for the oil to work its way around.
In the morning turn it over a couple of times to throw out any excess oil.
Replace the glow plugs.
Oh BTW did I mention charging the battery overnight also?
Pump the hand pump about 30 or 40 times...Once all back together go for it.
I bet it will start...
PS I live over in Bend so if you need more help send me a "Private message" and I might be heading over that way and can stop bye.
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'99 S420 - Mommies
'72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it
'84 300SD Grey - Sold
'85 300SD Silver - Sold
'78 Ski Nautique
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  #4  
Old 11-22-2002, 01:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Puyallup, Washington
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I purchased an 81 300SD car that was parked under a tree for 4 years last January for $1000---the experience has been bitter sweet. Yes, the worst thing you can do to any machinery is to let it sit for exactly the reasons Tank mentioned. My car's color is cream/yellow which buffed out like new. The interior was in average condition, but with clean up and leather conditioner it is now a good 8 out of 10. The car needed all new calipers and pads, new tires, new battery, new hood release cable, pan gasket, all fluids flushed and replaced, new injectors and a valve adjustment. I have been too afraid to add up the receipts! After the valves were adjusted, they turned a little against the valve seats and because of the crud build up, they would not seal properly. I drove the car for 5k miles and then took it back for a valve job. The seals were completly shot---the worst the mechanic had seen in years. Had so much blow-by that the air filter was completly impregnated with oil after the 5k. At this point, I could probably sell it for about what I put into it. However, I have a great running and reliable car and have not regreted the purchase. A bit of a project, but now I have something I am proud to drive
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Elliott Fager

1977 240D Hell Blau (Verkauft)
1981 240D Weiss (Gestorben)
1984 300D Dunkel Rot (Verkauft)
1982 240D Dunkel Blau (225k) "Panzer Wagen"
1981 300SD Beige (175k) "Kampfwagen"
1981 300SD Beige (205K) "Panzerkampwagen"
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  #5  
Old 11-23-2002, 12:21 AM
KeithG
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Thanks for all the input and moral support. We disconnected the fuel line from the tank, and pure clear diesel came gushing out. So that wasn't the problem. Next, I plan to replace fuel filters and see if that works unless you've got any other ideas...Keith
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  #6  
Old 11-23-2002, 10:26 AM
MikeTangas's Avatar
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Location: So. Cal
Posts: 4,430
Replace that leaky hand pump. If it's leaking fuel it will be sucking air.
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'73 280SEL 4.5 (9/72)- RIP
Only 8,173 units built from 5/71 thru 11/72

'02 CLK320 Cabriolet - wifey's mid-life crisis

2012 VW Jetta Sportwagon TDI...at least its a diesel

Non illegitemae carborundum.
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  #7  
Old 11-23-2002, 04:35 PM
Diesel Power
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I have a "quick and dirty" solution to reprime your fuel system. This comes with a disclaimer - BE CAREFUL, AND DON'T DO THIS IF YOU ARE AT ALL WORRIED ABOUT POTENTIAL RISK!!!

I have a bad primer pump in the 75. To reprime that car quickly, I pulled the fuel return hose from the pump back to the fuel filter. I then block the nipple that the hose connects to to prevent air form gettin in that direction. Then grab a shop vac. MAKE SURE that it is in working order, and rated for wet use. If you are at all unsure of it's condition, DON'T use it. Now cup the fuel return hose in your hand in such a way as you can block the opening to the hose to the shop vac, and the fuel return hose terminates inside the hose. Turn on and take note of any moisture that you feel. When you are drawing fuel out of the hose, shut off vacuum and immediately replace return hose to fuel filter housing. I've done this to a VW diesel that had no primer pump at all, and to the 75 when it lost prime, and I needed to move it. If a lack of fuel is your only problem regarding a no start, it WILL start after this.
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  #8  
Old 11-24-2002, 12:40 AM
KeithG
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Thanks again for the input, I didn't get a chance to get into it with the 300D today as I was off helping put up a shed to house the budding PORTLAND BIODIESEL COOP's new processor. (gobiodiesel.com) but I will be back at it soon. While I like the IDEA of shop vac priming, I'm not sure I'd like to try it just yet. Love that '59 though. So, ideally I'd like to replace the hand primer,but the one listed in the Fastlane looks nothing like mine. Mine screws down tight and has a grey plastic handle which fits inside rather than over the pump body. I dont have a manual yet, so I cant really see how it would fit. Any idea? -Keith
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  #9  
Old 11-24-2002, 08:10 AM
JMH JMH is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 61
Keith,
After many enjoyable hours spent tinkering together on my 84 300D Turbo, my neighbor decided to get his 77 240D back from the college student he had given it to..... we drove the 2 hours away to get it anticipating having to rent a trailer to tow it (been under a tree sitting for two years..... "won't start" we were told). Couldn't find a car hauler at UHaul so we decided to pull start it (jumpercables would turn it over but it just wouldn't fire). So we tied a pull strap to it and dragged it around the neighborhood where it had been sitting. After about 50 yards of pulling it coughed, sputtered and while clacking and shaking, it started finally. We drove it home.

We've now replaced the glow plugs, have run lubro-moly through it to clean up the injectors and have purchased a bunch of other miscellaneous stuff to get it back in running shape, but my point is, now she starts when we crank it over!

Neither my 300 nor the 240 have owners manuals in them but another friend with a 240 does and it says in there that you can pull/tow the automatic to start it. It gives procedures in the manual on how to do it. Unsure from your post if there might be other problems but perhaps your glow plugs are not getting the job done if fouled with alot of carbon deposits or the injectors are fouled and you just need to get it to run to burn it off. Perhaps configure a lubro-moly can under your hood to where you can tow it with the fuel to the vehicle being that and tow it/start it with that. Just a suggestion. It doesn't sound like your car is terminally ill. If your battery is weak, i.e. you cannot crank multiple times without draining it, I would suggest this. Heat of compression is as we all know the ticket to firing.

JMH
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  #10  
Old 11-24-2002, 03:01 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Replace the hand pump, you aren't going anywhere until you do.

Once you have a new hand pump installed, crack the bleed screw on the fuel filter and pump untill no more air comes out. This will take a while.

Close the bleed screw and then pump until you can hear the fuel hissing out of the injection pump. You have run all the fuel out of the pump when you started it the first time, bad luck that the lift pump didn't fill the filter and IP again.

Now, crack the injector lines and crank until you get all the air out. Hold the throttle wide open while doing this, it takes less time that way.

When you get fuel only, tighten the cap nuts and glow it, then it should start. You will at least have oiled the engine properly by now....!

The key is no air in the injectors. Hold you foot to the floor when you try to start it, this will help purge the air out.

Plan on charging the battery several times.

Peter
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1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #11  
Old 11-28-2002, 12:24 AM
KeithG
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Thank you all for the great ideas, it lives! I had to bring in a hired gun as my time is not my own right now,but at least it moves....Sort of; the turbo is toast. Which brings me to a whole new thread, and a whole new set of questions, like can you buy a junkyard turbo that's worth anything? Failing that, can anyone reccomend a rebuilder? Again thanks for all the advice/moral support. Keith
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  #12  
Old 11-28-2002, 09:55 AM
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Central Oregon
Posts: 1,004
Congratulations!!!!

So if it moves I guess now he's hooked....
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'99 S420 - Mommies
'72 280SE 4.5 - looking to breathe life into it
'84 300SD Grey - Sold
'85 300SD Silver - Sold
'78 Ski Nautique
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  #13  
Old 11-29-2002, 11:03 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Evansville, Indiana
Posts: 8,150
Before you condem the turbo, make sure the boost control system is working -- if the boost sensor line to the ALDA is plugged or leaking, you will get very little turbo effect. This is a much cheaper fix than the turbo....

You can have the turbo repaired by any reputable diesel injection/turbo service. Cost will be aprox $400 for a simple seal replacement to about $750 for a cartridge (bearing and compressor/turbine set). Or you can purchase the cartridge and install it yourself -- its basically everything but the housing front and rear.

R&R isn't bad on those cars. You will need to get a new oil supply line -- keep the reciept as the warrenty on the rebuild or new cartridge will be void if you do not install new oil lines at the same time. Also a good time to replace the o-rings on the drain back into the oil pan, too.

Peter
__________________
1972 220D ?? miles
1988 300E 200,012
1987 300D Turbo killed 9/25/07, 275,000 miles
1985 Volvo 740 GLE Turobodiesel 218,000
1972 280 SE 4.5 165, 000 - It runs!
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  #14  
Old 11-30-2002, 12:03 AM
KeithG
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Well, I think it's the turbo 'cuz when you reach through to the fresh air side of the cartridge and try to spin it, it turns, but doesn't spin freely as I have been told it should. Eastcoast turbo sez they'll provide a rebuilt for 300 plus the core. That is the best option I've heard so far. Keith
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  #15  
Old 11-30-2002, 06:54 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Northern Va.
Posts: 129
I was told that buying a used turbo was like buying used food. This came from the owner of United Diesel service in Alexandria Va. This gentleman is German and has been in the "diesel" busines for 40 years. I bought a garrett remanufactored turbo from him after seeing what a overhauled turbo looked like. Overhauled only replaces the worn-out parts and bearings...leaving you with old parts in your turbo. Remanufactored replaces everything...cost me $600. To overhaul mine would have been $300-$400 depending on parts. If you know the source of the tubo and trust the person... and the tubo has low miles...I would have bought a used one...but none to be found. Good luck.

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1983 300SD 343K everyday car
1983 300SD 285K from junk yard-tooks parts from deer car- runs great. Brothers car.
1984 300SD parts car-Hit deer
1979 300D 175K non-turbo "Doctor"
1979 300d parts car
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