That nonwithstanding, I still firmly believe that while the 124 may be slightly more complex and costly to maintain, it is worth every freakin' penny. Period. And we're not talking the 123 is a "1" while the 124 is a "10" on a scale of 1-10 on cost, either. More like a 3 and 4, respectively. You want expensive to maintain? Try a W140 sometime. Or what's possibly the most expensive vehicle on the planet short of red Italian two-seaters, the old W100 chassis, which is the original 600 (limo?)... I think I have that right? I heard some stories about that thing and I still can't fathom why anyone without an 8-digit net worth would own one. Oh well, to each his own, and I'll take 124's thank you very much.

__________________
Check out my website photos, documents, and movies!

SEE??? Every car is different!

The music has started, and the merry-go-round is back in motion again!

The W123 and W124 are BOTH WONDERFUL cars!

I know a current MB tech who is a friend of mine that says the W211 is "junk". I can't reveal his name to you guys for obvious reasons, but he works out of his own garage and has his own built in lift.

Larry, I shouldn't be so judgemental and should give the W211 a chance. But I saw the car, I got to sit in it, I looked at the car in all its glory, I wasn't impressed. I started the engine and at idle, a vibration could be felt through the steering wheel, just like the new SL, and the E500 engine was suprisingly not silent. I could hear it, and that dissapointed me.

JD Powers seems pretty darn accurate to me, and I researched most MB models(only '90+ up). The different catagories don't just involve simple electronics, but initial build quality, and long term driveability(say, if the car gets you stuck on the road or not). I think it is pretty comprehensive and fair from what I've read.

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

I've read through thousands of posts on this forum over the last 4 years complaining about the quality of new MBs. These same posts usually ignore the quality problems MB has had in the past, such as:

116s rusting out when they were 3 years old.

420's snapping timing chains

103s burning oil after 50k miles

116 climate controls???

124 4matic systems???

123 interior door pulls (they are FLIMSY)

123 steering boxes- I've never driven one without play.

107 cracking subframe mounts

603s cracking heads

603.97x. Period.

124 and 140 evaps

ALL older MB aircon systems

OVP failures

single chain 380s

leaking m110s. Every one I've seen leaks.

undersized 124 exterior mirrors

------------------------------

If the internet was around 20 years ago, folks would have been bemoaning the downfall of MB then.

I would not dismiss a new model because of a few half assed reports (these are quantitave reports, NOT qualitative).

We will probably be longing for the old W211 when the w398 is in its first year of production.

__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

Yes, but that stuff was permanently fixable(except for the W116 which justs wants to rust if you look at it funny, the 4 matics sucked but MB brought them back recently anyway, and climate controls, and the V8 timing chain was required maintenence). Electronics are different. They just go when they feel like it, and there is nothing anyone can do to stop failures. More stuff equipped = more stuff to break.

The way MB is going, the W398 will never be produced as MB will go the way of the Studebaker.

I must've had the only M110 that was dry underneath. But they were a leaky engine with DOHC.

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

DslBnz-

I do agree with you that more stuff = more stuff to break. But at the same time MB is under pressure from consumers and gov'ts to make cars safer, faster, more economical and better handling. They have done this, but at what cost? What choice do they have? The older sedans would be laughed off the market today by the car buying public (excluding patrons of this site, of course). I'm sure a 126 car would look like a rocket ship if viewed from the a 1960s vantange.

It sounds like your beef with modern MBZs is with the design, more than construction techniques. I don't know what to say to that except that MBZ has really done its own thing stying wise- its just that other makers have plagerized their genuis so often that they have less with which to distiniguish themselves as a result. See Lexus, Styling department for details.

All that said, the M class, C class and C coupe are not inline with what i have expected out of Stuttgart over the years

Good conversation. To bad we can't meet over a few beers once a week and talk cars for a bit

Mike

By the way- any more videos in the making?

__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

I guess it is the style I have most of the beef with. It just doesn't stand out anymore. But the idea of being stuck on the road wouldn't work out so well with a future wife. If the car leaves her stranded, she'd want another car, plain and simple.

Its nice having an intelligent and fair person to respond to, instead of flaming and irrational behavior being incurred. Some folks at other mb sites are that way, but again I never see it here.

About the videos... I can make some any day of the week if you want.

Current extra cars to work with, courtesy of my dad...

1988 420SEL

1987 560SL

1986 300SDL

1991 300E

1994 E320

1985 380SL

1988 560SL

1984 300D

1984 300TD

1983 300D

1980 280E

1987 300SDL

Which one do you think would make a good video? 'nough Benz's eh? My dad runs a used Benz exclusive dealership so I benefit from it.

My dad, as you can tell, LOVES the older Benzes. Especially the W123, W124, W126, and R107. Some of the best MB's ever made.

Maybe I should use all of them in a video compilation detailing MB's good ole days!

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

Sorry for the thread post but you don't have a PM or e-mail contact

What videos might he be talking about? I'm always interested in MB videos to download.

BTW, I'd pick the '87 SDL or '84TD

PM and e-mail should be OK now. I had them disabled for security reasons. However, I trust you guys now, so I will start revealing more about myself. Off to bed with me, now.

Btw, I'm kind of lazy with e-mail but e-mail address is

ejzus@comcast.net

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

So now MB's going out of Business?! I don't think so.

Even if there is a difference between MB and other makers in their class, the difference is not huge. If MB is indeed running at a negative, things don't stay the same forever. Just like when you're driving down the road, you are constantly steering one way and then the other to stay between the curbs.

MB has enough mass that they will not crash into the wall and die before taking corrective measures for survival and product improvement.

Have a great day,

One cannot predict the future, and only time will tell. But after acquiring that LOSER company Chrysler, I have my doubts about them right now.

They should oust Schrempp(I think that's how his name is spelled).

Chrysler has been killing Mercedes' profits ever since. Now Mercedes E-Class sales are down, and the E-Class sales are what Mercedes needed to break even from the Chrysler losses.

Think what you want, believe what you will, but you CANNOT deny that the "Merger of Equals" was the worst mistake MB ever made.

Hopefully you're right, Larry... Except while MB is destroying its name, others are building status.

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

1989 300E - daily driver - 300,000 Kms - mint condition.

That's a 15 year old car. 15 Canadian winters and no rusting. Drives perfectly. Original engine - original valves, guides, etc. Just replaced the original alternator after 300,000 Kms of trusty service. Tranny is smooth as silk. I service the car regularily and keep it running smoothly. I don't let problems accumulate.

What more can you ask for? How many other cars could perform likewise? A Ford? Buick? Honda?

See you at 500,000.

P.S. I really hope MB dumps Chrysler asap and we can all pretend it was just a bad dream...

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

My feeling about MB quality is that it started to decline with the introduction of the trap oxidizer in 1985. Then we had things like weak heads and bent rods. Did any MB's prior to the 1985 model year ever have such serious issues?

__________________
2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual)

Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL

You may be right... But there are a lot of things MB made easier, too. The M119 never needing a timing chain, the 603 engines never needing valves adjusted, etc.

At least in '96 Mercedes took care of trap oxidizers free of charge. This was done on diesels with any kind of mileage, free of charge. The '87 300D had to have a complete new exhaust put in, front to back to accomodate the catalyst. This was done on cars that had already aged 10 years or so. Its their written word, so MB(quite reluctantly) stands behind it still today.

After a few years MB started to stop standing by their work. An example. In the early years, if a 350 engine blew up, MB would replace it if it was under or around the 100K mile mark. It might've taken a little work to get it free, but eventually they'd give you a new stronger modified block, no charge at all.

Now, MB could care less if it had 50K miles. Their excuse is,"Its old, it should be in the junkyard anyway".

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)

Well I don't know what to add to this thread. I think most people would be happy with ANY mercedes

DslBnz- can't seem to get your video to work...its a .mov file?

If you want to make another video, I vote for the 420sel and the 560sl. Or maybe a diesel..I miss mine still

Mike

__________________
'90 300SE 298k
-300K and it gets put into retirement.
'80 300D 255k Purchased new by family in 1980.

Had a:
1973 220 (gas)
1980 300SD
1992 400E

The 420SEL is a "baby".:p

It is an absolute showpiece. Not even a SPEC of paint damage from the original paint. That has got to have been the cleanest W126 I have ever seen.

Sure, I'll show you some videos of it. What kind do you want?

BTW, the 560SL same thing...What kind of videos? Do you want me to record from the speedometer, circle the car, or take it from the hood?

Also have to do one of a W123 turbodiesel. ALDA's never been touched, but its pretty peppy.

The movie IS .mov, yes.

The link doesn't work eh? I just checked. Sorry,...

The video was too big anyway. Hold on while a make another one with a 560SL, the 420SEL, and a 300SD.

__________________
1987 300SDL (324000)

1986 Porsche 951 (944 Turbo) (166000)

1978 Porsche 924 (99000)

1996 Nissan Pathfinder R50 (201000)