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  #1  
Old 06-14-2004, 08:53 PM
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W123 lowering springs

Hi Guys,

Does anybody know where I can get some lowering springs for my '77 300D?

Thanks, Andrei

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  #2  
Old 06-14-2004, 08:59 PM
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I have to ask, why do you want to do that?
You're going to have a heck of a time with your front and rear camber settings.
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  #3  
Old 06-14-2004, 09:24 PM
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search in the forum about springs....there was a post that was pretty huge about this issue,....with a little bit of fighting from an old senior dude and a 20yr old kid about lowering springs....kinda entertaining to read about the arguments but full of info about lowering your 300D...

laterz
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  #4  
Old 06-14-2004, 10:46 PM
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Look in the FSM, there are a blue million different springs of many rates and lengths abailable, along with the spacers.

Do search..

But the ride height and being able to roll over most anything on the road is really nice..
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Old 06-14-2004, 10:58 PM
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Use 'leathermang' in the right box when searching... I am pretty sure I have posted a picture of the page with all the spring specs on it...

" OLD senior dude" ? WHAT ?
How about " Mechanically Conservative Senior Dude" ?

I am assuming this is the thread you were referring to...

Found W123 Lowering Springs
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  #6  
Old 06-14-2004, 11:25 PM
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yup thats the one...

a lot of information to allow one to make the choice that is correct for them....

read on / decide on
Jake
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2004, 12:49 AM
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hey leathermang....sorry about that!
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  #8  
Old 06-15-2004, 01:43 AM
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Hmm

I really don't care about ride height. As a Mercedes owner, I can appreciate the classy look of a tall W123 sitting on 14" rims.

While our cars offer a very comfortable and liesurly ride, I think they are down-right-dangerous in emergency maneuvers. If I pull a hard turn at 25mph, the car feels like a 80' yacht breaching a huge wave. Really, really bad body roll, corner bounce, and understeer.

While the understeer is a fact of life, the body roll and bounce could be virtually eliminated with stiffer springs, stiffer shocks, new suspension bushings and larger sway bars. And as long as the control arm is not in a drastically different resting position, there will be no geometry and alignment problems.

I am going to do it. I don't know how yet, but I will.
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  #9  
Old 06-15-2004, 06:53 AM
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Re: Hmm

Quote:
Originally posted by Cazzzidy
I really don't care about ride height. As a Mercedes owner, I can appreciate the classy look of a tall W123 sitting on 14" rims.

While our cars offer a very comfortable and liesurly ride, I think they are down-right-dangerous in emergency maneuvers. If I pull a hard turn at 25mph, the car feels like a 80' yacht breaching a huge wave. Really, really bad body roll, corner bounce, and understeer.

While the understeer is a fact of life, the body roll and bounce could be virtually eliminated with stiffer springs, stiffer shocks, new suspension bushings and larger sway bars. And as long as the control arm is not in a drastically different resting position, there will be no geometry and alignment problems.

I am going to do it. I don't know how yet, but I will.
True, it is that way, but it's more a function of weight and the design of the car.

If you eliminate the spring movement, something else will give, be it tires or whatever, there just too much car that's too tall physicaly(not ride height) to ever snap around like you want it to.
I'd love it if it would, but I don't see it happening. I believe also that I've read MB designed in that body roll for a reason, something about the w115 cornering *too* flat and oversteering badly. I don't recall.

One thing you could do, is find a TD rear sway bar(1mm larger), and correct from bar mounting brackets from a TD, they have fewer holes in them and are stiffer, acording to the FSM. Little bits someties help.

I do know what your talking about, but it's just the way things are in a car like this. I went through a c3 corvette awhile back, kyb's, poly bushings, oversize sway bars, the works. Handles great, except that 70 series tires now feel like there made of marshmellows. Have a go at it, but don't expect a porsche.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:17 AM
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Re: Re: Hmm

Quote:
find a TD rear sway bar(1mm larger), and correct from bar mounting brackets from a TD, they have fewer holes in them and are stiffer, acording to the FSM.
On the W123 chassis, the rear 'sway bar' is roughly 3/8" in diameter and, IMHO, does little except transmit the body/ground (load in cargo area) relationship to the SLS valve.

I doubt if it would be worth the effort to change.
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Last edited by R Leo; 06-15-2004 at 12:01 PM.
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  #11  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:35 AM
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Yes, the place to start to correct excessive roll is the front sway bar and its bushings....this would change to general ride feel the least.... while giving the most change to the roll...
However, putting in a new larger front sway bar is a big job on most of these cars simply due to the number of things which have to be taken off and reinstalled to get to them...
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  #12  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:46 AM
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PURE Motorsport sells Vogtland progressive rate lowering springs for the 123 chassis, as well as most others. They are not a normally stocked part, but they can get them from Germany. They take about 6-8 weeks for delivery, and are $244 shipped to the lower 48. Their website is http://www.purems.com if you need to get in touch with them.

RE: Body Roll, I find that the most drastic improvement can be had by switching from the stock Bilstein Comforts to the Sports. Huge improvement in vehicle control and cornering, with little sacrifice in ride quality. This is assuming that ALL of your suspention components are in like-new condition. If not, start with a suspension refurb before any performance mods.
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  #13  
Old 06-15-2004, 12:00 PM
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FWIW, I'm about to undertake a similar lowering operation on my 300TD. Before the transmission conversion, the wagon was easily an inch higher than the sedan and after removing +275# of auto tranny from her gut, she now sits a good 2" higher than my 300D.

I don't mind the height so much but I think that the front end's spring rate is much too stiff. Consequently, I'm going to try out a set of front springs from my 240D parts car. They are 10mm longer than the 300TD springs but, the rate is softer. I don't have the exact numbers in front of me but I think that the wagon's springs compress as something like 20 mm/1000 N and the springs from the 240 compress at 23.3 mm/1000 N.

Hopefully, that rate won't be too soft for the weight of the bigger engine.
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Old 06-15-2004, 12:09 PM
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I second the suspension refurb, make sure all your shocks are doing their job.

I have no problems with my all stock w123 (bilstein sports in front, OEM MB shocks in rear). I think a major factor in these cars are the tires. the tires used on w123s are of a size that its common to get the 4 for $99, and those tires arent doing your car any favors. These cars are high and heavy; Id highly suggest an "H" speed rated tire for it (oe was 'S' rated). This will limit sidewall flex, which will in turn enhance handling. Also, H rated tires are often A or AA traction (I use dunlop sport A2 tires that are AA rated) and A temperature rated. I think tires are a place not to scrimp, and the dunlops are high quality for $55/tire + mountint and balancing. Not a bad deal... and I like the piece of mind that the tire is designed to take higher speeds that my car could never so much as reach, and be more resistant to sidewall flex and heat breakdown.

There is no way these cars should feel like they are handling lousy at 25 mph (or anything short of a hard corner at 60+), I can tell youy that until high speeds or really aggressivE stuff hits, my truck (on 31" tires) the MB and my 50/50 weight distributed BMW all handle more or less the same. Thats not to say that the BMW isnt an excellent handling car, but its saying that until youre on a racetrack, if its feeling really bad, and youre not driving a medium duty truck or similar, there is a problem with the car's stock suspension setup or the tires.

Actually one experiment I wanted to try is to put a good set (yokohama touring perhaps) of s rated tires onto my car and see what the difference is like with stock spec tires, because Im sure there is one. I know when we went from H rated michelins to V rated yokohama tires on my father's w210 E300 Diesel, the car was much more responsive to steering, and handled better.

JMH
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2004, 03:51 PM
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This is also very true, and something I omitted from my first post. There is no way to make an OEM-sized tire perform like a low profile tire. There is quite a range of flex between brands and models within a certain sidewall height, of course, but for the most part, more sidewall equals more flex. I upgraded my 123 to 205/55-16 Continentals and it made a huge difference in handling.

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