so what does it take to get some power out of a 99 e300td? - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

hobbitss · #16 05-15-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoleshotHolset

A bigger IC alone isn't going to make a whole lot of difference performance wise. However, it will allow you to run more fuel.

Keep your fueling the same + add bigger IC = not much but lower EGT's
Add some fuel + add bigger IC =

I don't get the impression that the chiptuning for the OM606.962's adds a whole lot of fuel. Then again, I've yet to see any EGT data on a stock/modded OM606.962...

Like others have said before - the OEM turbo is a MAJOR restriction. I honestly wouldn't push it much past OEM fueling. It SINGS and you can tell the wastegate is almost always open. Nothing wrong with that, per se...just no good for the top end and making more power in general.

Cheers,

Matt

I'm a little confused by your last statement...
If the Waste Gate is mostly open then it is wasted compressed air that could be used with more fuel to produce more power... Extra air is available and with a chip extra fuel, so what needs to be done to open the spicket "and" close the waste gate??...

Simpler=Better · #17 05-15-2009, 10:20 PM

Can a boost controller be used between the manifold and wastegate?

#18 05-16-2009, 12:32 AM

It uses vacuum controlled by the computer.

hobbitss, the wastegate is on the exhaust side. Its open most of the time because the trubo is very small for the engine.

HoleshotHolset · #19 05-16-2009, 07:44 AM

Since the KKK turbo on these engines is so small, their compressor map (a chart showing a comparison between airflow and pressure ratio) would probably show us that they're not only inefficient at the higher pressure ratios...but that they also don't move a whole lot of air. It's clear that Mercedes wanted these OM606 engines to have literally ZERO turbo lag...and that they were concerned with exhaust emissions.

If you were to crank the wastegate in an attempt to gain boost, either through mechanical or electonic means, you run the risk of pushing the turbo outside its efficiency range. When you do this, you'll end up with more boost, but the compressor discharge temperatures are much warmer than they would be if you were well inside the efficiency range.

Turbocharger compressors are like anything else that compresses air - they create heat...heat which is dealt with by the various forms of inter, intra or aftercooling...all of which attempt to achieve the same goal - to reduce the charge air temps as much as possible without acting as too much of a restriction in total airflow.

There aren't many turbocharged vehicles produced over the years where you can expect sizable gains in HP/torque over OEM levels while using the OEM turbo...and expecting things to not break down.

Back to the compressor map...quite a few of them also list the compressor/turbine RPM. Wastegates control boost by limiting the exhaust flow through the turbine (or 'hot' side) of the turbo - bypassing it into the downpipe. Less exhaust flow through the turbine section = lower turbine and consequently compressor RPM. Lower compressor RPM = less boost. Closing up that wastegate in an attempt to gain boost may overspeed the turbine/compressor - again, outside the efficient range of the compressor map - and can lead to failure.

Some turbos out there are a LOT more resilient to overspeeding than others. Luckily the KKK's have a pretty good track record. However, I'm unsure about the particular model on the OM606.962's...other KKK's out there are pretty stout.

Cheers,

Matt

#20 05-16-2009, 07:55 AM

Its a K14.

The nice thing about that engine having a vacuum wastegate, quick response and computer control is installing a VNT turbo would be easy since the control part is already taken care of.

HoleshotHolset · #21 05-16-2009, 08:11 AM

OK - K14...gotcha.
Provided the "logic" behind the vacuum is the same as the replacement VNT/VGT - you're absolutely right...installing one wouldn't be such a bad job!

Cheers,

Matt

uberwgn · #22 05-16-2009, 09:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkostoj

so what does it take to get some power out of a 99 e300td?

How much are you willing to spend? $250 or $10,000

Beyond basic chipping, you will quickly move outside of the engineering limits of the car (transmission, turbo, etc.).

I have STUSA chips sitting in my basement for the 1999 car should anyone have an interest

hobbitss · #23 05-16-2009, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForcedInduction

It uses vacuum controlled by the computer.

hobbitss, the wastegate is on the exhaust side. Its open most of the time because the trubo is very small for the engine.

That explains a lot...
Mine seems to run between 0 and 2 or 3 lbs boost most of the time but when I need WOT I've seen the boost up in the 15 or 16 lbs range... That might suggest that there is safely room for a little more boost for cruising since more air is better, correct?..
I wonder if boost is already part of the CPU re-flash hence the increases in power and efficiency...

HoleshotHolset · #24 05-16-2009, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uberwgn

I have STUSA chips sitting in my basement for the 1999 car should anyone have an interest

Private message sent.

Cheers,

Matt

hobbitss · #25 06-06-2009, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhdoc

I got the Stage 2 chip upgrade from speedtuning and my EGR has been thwarted and I can say the car is not a muscle car but is better. Total cost is $410.

I am not sure what the transmission and rest of the drivetrain would do with more power than this is putting out so if you do go crazy to 400+HP you'd better budget for a new tranny and differential too. These are designed to match the power of the engines they are mated to. I think you can get away with a marginal increase, like the speedtuning chip delivers, but if you go all out don't expect the rest of it to hold up that well.

If you want Muscle buy an AMG gas car. My C43 does 0-60 in under 6 seconds and still delivers 20 MPG city/27 Highway.

Looks like this thread answers some of the Transmission questions...
99 E300 722.6 trans compatability

I'm wondering if they have done something similar with the Rear ends, ie. 2 different grades or strength levels...

Olivier · #26 12-17-2009, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KarTek

7mm pump elements, big turbo - like HX40 or HX35 at the least, custom exhaust manifold/exhaust system. I'm also putting in experimental injector nozzles and custom turned delivery valves.

All together probably about $3000 worth of stuff. At least that's what I'm budgeting.

Hi Evan, what is the 7mm pump element? Is it self made you you can buy it?
Cheers.
Olivier

KarTek · #27 12-17-2009, 04:02 PM

Big O,

The elements came from Tomnik. I have no idea where they were made or who made them...

Olivier · #28 12-17-2009, 04:09 PM

Cheers Evan,
but what is a 7mm element? Where it is? Is tomnik from the forum too?
Thanks.
Olivier

tomnik · #29 12-18-2009, 03:38 PM

Hi Oliver,

these 7 mm elements Evan is talking about are the famous "Myna elements".
Please ask Myna for the supplier

Tom

Olivier · #30 12-18-2009, 04:02 PM

Hi Tom,
thank you .Got their address from here
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/sitemap/t-222263.html
I will give them a call next year.
I still don't know what is the 7 mm element tho?
Evan got 6 of them, I guess its for the injectors? do they fit on top of the IP or inside?
Thank you.
Olivier