87 300D 5spd swap - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

ashedd · #1 07-11-2009, 06:52 PM

I will start this swap in August. I wanted to start a thread about the swap, along with pictures, to get feedback and answers. I posted in "diesel performance tuning" to keep the audience small and expert. I want to hear from people with the knowledge to help me along. I also want to limited the number of wise cracks and arguments that so many other threads have in the main sections.

So far I have the parts car, 85 190D 5spd, and the 300D. I know one of the final issues will be the rear end ratio. We will have to wait and see what comes of that.

I have a good understanding on what I want to do and it seems pretty straight forward

I do have a clutch question to start with:
I can only really find one clutch for the 190d, factory(basically)/OEM. Do you think the OEM clutch is strong enough to deal with the bigger engine and any performance mods I might have? I do not see any clutch upgrades. Currently I do not plan on any HP improvements beyond say.. 225hp

Simpler=Better · #2 07-11-2009, 08:14 PM

I don't know a whole lot about clutches, but as a safety factor definitely get something that can handle 300hp/300ft-lb torque(75 higher than you plan)

ashedd · #3 07-11-2009, 08:38 PM

I will do more looking around but so far all I can find are OEM clutches.

Avarec · #4 07-11-2009, 09:34 PM

try german or england ebay, or european parts websites, they should have something since they have plenty w124 300d in 5 speed

but first find out maybe oem 190d is good and strong enogh????

how do you know it wont be strong enogh

ashedd · #5 07-11-2009, 10:22 PM

So far I can find Sachs and Rhino OEM clutch kits. Does anyone have any idea if one is better/nicer than the other? I know it's a dumb question but I don't have any experience with either brand.

I just think the OEM clutch is for a 70 some HP engine and I will double that with a stock om603. So perhaps the OEM clutch will not hold. It's only an 8" clutch. I could be totally wrong.
UPDATE. The 2.2 has a 7" clutch and the 2.5 has a 8" clutch. Different part numbers. So can the old 7" clutch be upgraded to the 8" clutch? I can find performance 2.5 clutches.

I may go dog the poop out of the 190 and see if I can get the clutch to slip. If it won't slip it might be in good enough shape to use it in the 300d.. pending my decision on a new clutch.

I have the last owner's(original owner) address, maybe I can ask him when he put a clutch in it last.

rcounts · #6 07-12-2009, 12:29 AM

As I understand it the mount for the starter is on the wrong side in the 190D. What are your plans for dealing with that issue?

ashedd · #7 07-12-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcounts

As I understand it the mount for the starter is on the wrong side in the 190D. What are your plans for dealing with that issue?

You scared the poop out of me. I went out and looked.

I can say with authority that the starter on the OM601 is on the drivers side. The starter on the OM603 is on the drivers side. So if this question comes up again I hope someone will see this post in a search.

If there are any other concerns please speak up. I would like to know about them sooner rather than later.

Thanks

rcounts · #8 07-12-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ashedd

You scared the poop out of me. I went out and looked.

I can say with authority that the starter on the OM601 is on the drivers side. The starter on the OM603 is on the drivers side. So if this question comes up again I hope someone will see this post in a search.

If there are any other concerns please speak up. I would like to know about them sooner rather than later.

Thanks

Good to know...

ashedd · #9 07-24-2009, 08:34 PM

I am getting ready to leave Va. and go back home to Indiana... then I can start the swap. Nothing new in the project however I did look at my 300d rear end and see that is a 2.65. I have no idea if that is too tall or not.. the 190d will go on the lift this weekend for a look see before the trip home. I will get that gear ratio and report.

ashedd · #10 07-29-2009, 02:14 PM

Looked under the 190d today. Everything looks good for the trip home.

I was not able to find the gear ratio on the rear diff. Does anyone know where it is? I assumed it was in the same place at the 300d but it's not. The 190d's diff mounts differently than the 300d so even if I wanted to use it in the swap I dont think I can.

Billybob · #11 07-29-2009, 03:10 PM

The ratio will be stamped on either the left or the right lower lip of the differential case not the cover.

According to the 1986 TDM 201.122 with a 5 speed manual transmission came with a 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) tranny and the 3.23 differential up to October 1985 and a 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) and the 3.91 differential starting in November 1985.

As far as potential problems, you should be mindful of the connections between the tranny and drive shaft and the drive shaft and the differential. The tri-lobe yokes come in a couple of different hole diameters with the basic rule being lower HP smaller yokes.

As far as alternative differentials you'll probably need to stick with 124 chassis parts, the rear covers might be swapable as far as mounting the diff, but another concern to be mindful of regarding differentials there are two different axle shaft/connecting flange sizes 86 mm and 94 mm where the majority of 124 cars use the larger, as do the 87 2.5 Turbo cars and the 190E 2.6 cars where most of the other 201 cars use the 86 mm axle and flange.

ashedd · #12 07-29-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The ratio will be stamped on either the left or the right lower lip of the differential case not the cover.

According to the 1986 TDM 201.122 with a 5 speed manual transmission came with a 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) tranny and the 3.23 differential up to October 1985 and a 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) and the 3.91 differential starting in November 1985.

No lip on this diff. That area of the diff is so small I dont think you could stamp anything on there, more of a ridge. The 300d has a large lip on each side with the ratio on the right one.

The other info is very good to know. The 190 diff looks smaller in size to the 300d... maybe I am crazy. I do like that 3.91 ratio though. We will have to wait and see how it comes together.

I will get some basic pics when I get home to the camera.

Thanks

Oldbeaver · #13 12-15-2009, 06:40 PM

Would appreciate if someone can tell me if the differential of the 190 D car is compatible with the diff of the W124.

I need one of these 3.91 diffs.

Tks a lot in advance,

Old Beaver

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billybob

The ratio will be stamped on either the left or the right lower lip of the differential case not the cover.

According to the 1986 TDM 201.122 with a 5 speed manual transmission came with a 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) tranny and the 3.23 differential up to October 1985 and a 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) and the 3.91 differential starting in November 1985.

As far as potential problems, you should be mindful of the connections between the tranny and drive shaft and the drive shaft and the differential. The tri-lobe yokes come in a couple of different hole diameters with the basic rule being lower HP smaller yokes.

As far as alternative differentials you'll probably need to stick with 124 chassis parts, the rear covers might be swapable as far as mounting the diff, but another concern to be mindful of regarding differentials there are two different axle shaft/connecting flange sizes 86 mm and 94 mm where the majority of 124 cars use the larger, as do the 87 2.5 Turbo cars and the 190E 2.6 cars where most of the other 201 cars use the 86 mm axle and flange.

maidaa · #14 12-16-2009, 12:47 AM

If this is any help?

http://www.superturbodiesel.com/std/w201-and-w124-asd-diff-swaps-t-597.html

maidaa · #15 12-16-2009, 12:58 AM

And...

(this is from a German posting, so it is probably not all correct to US spec. cars)