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  #1  
Old 07-11-2009, 06:52 PM
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87 300D 5spd swap

I will start this swap in August. I wanted to start a thread about the swap, along with pictures, to get feedback and answers. I posted in "diesel performance tuning" to keep the audience small and expert. I want to hear from people with the knowledge to help me along. I also want to limited the number of wise cracks and arguments that so many other threads have in the main sections.

So far I have the parts car, 85 190D 5spd, and the 300D. I know one of the final issues will be the rear end ratio. We will have to wait and see what comes of that.

I have a good understanding on what I want to do and it seems pretty straight forward

I do have a clutch question to start with:
I can only really find one clutch for the 190d, factory(basically)/OEM. Do you think the OEM clutch is strong enough to deal with the bigger engine and any performance mods I might have? I do not see any clutch upgrades. Currently I do not plan on any HP improvements beyond say.. 225hp

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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D


Last edited by ashedd; 07-11-2009 at 06:57 PM.
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  #2  
Old 07-11-2009, 08:14 PM
Simpler=Better's Avatar
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I don't know a whole lot about clutches, but as a safety factor definitely get something that can handle 300hp/300ft-lb torque(75 higher than you plan)
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  #3  
Old 07-11-2009, 08:38 PM
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I will do more looking around but so far all I can find are OEM clutches.
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Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #4  
Old 07-11-2009, 09:34 PM
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try german or england ebay, or european parts websites, they should have something since they have plenty w124 300d in 5 speed

but first find out maybe oem 190d is good and strong enogh????

how do you know it wont be strong enogh
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  #5  
Old 07-11-2009, 10:22 PM
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So far I can find Sachs and Rhino OEM clutch kits. Does anyone have any idea if one is better/nicer than the other? I know it's a dumb question but I don't have any experience with either brand.

I just think the OEM clutch is for a 70 some HP engine and I will double that with a stock om603. So perhaps the OEM clutch will not hold. It's only an 8" clutch. I could be totally wrong.
UPDATE. The 2.2 has a 7" clutch and the 2.5 has a 8" clutch. Different part numbers. So can the old 7" clutch be upgraded to the 8" clutch? I can find performance 2.5 clutches.

I may go dog the poop out of the 190 and see if I can get the clutch to slip. If it won't slip it might be in good enough shape to use it in the 300d.. pending my decision on a new clutch.

I have the last owner's(original owner) address, maybe I can ask him when he put a clutch in it last.
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D


Last edited by ashedd; 07-11-2009 at 10:57 PM.
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  #6  
Old 07-12-2009, 12:29 AM
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As I understand it the mount for the starter is on the wrong side in the 190D. What are your plans for dealing with that issue?
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  #7  
Old 07-12-2009, 12:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcounts View Post
As I understand it the mount for the starter is on the wrong side in the 190D. What are your plans for dealing with that issue?

You scared the poop out of me. I went out and looked.

I can say with authority that the starter on the OM601 is on the drivers side. The starter on the OM603 is on the drivers side. So if this question comes up again I hope someone will see this post in a search.

If there are any other concerns please speak up. I would like to know about them sooner rather than later.

Thanks
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #8  
Old 07-12-2009, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
You scared the poop out of me. I went out and looked.

I can say with authority that the starter on the OM601 is on the drivers side. The starter on the OM603 is on the drivers side. So if this question comes up again I hope someone will see this post in a search.

If there are any other concerns please speak up. I would like to know about them sooner rather than later.

Thanks
Good to know...
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1984 300 Coupe TurboDiesel
Silver blue paint over navy blue interior
2nd owner & 2nd engine in an otherwise
99% original unmolested car
~210k miles on the clock

1986 Ford F250 4x4 Supercab
Charcoal & blue two tone paint over burgundy interior
Banks turbo, DRW, ZF-5 & SMF conversion
152k on the clock - actual mileage unknown
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  #9  
Old 07-24-2009, 08:34 PM
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I am getting ready to leave Va. and go back home to Indiana... then I can start the swap. Nothing new in the project however I did look at my 300d rear end and see that is a 2.65. I have no idea if that is too tall or not.. the 190d will go on the lift this weekend for a look see before the trip home. I will get that gear ratio and report.
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #10  
Old 07-29-2009, 02:14 PM
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Looked under the 190d today. Everything looks good for the trip home.

I was not able to find the gear ratio on the rear diff. Does anyone know where it is? I assumed it was in the same place at the 300d but it's not. The 190d's diff mounts differently than the 300d so even if I wanted to use it in the swap I dont think I can.
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #11  
Old 07-29-2009, 03:10 PM
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1985 190D ratio!

The ratio will be stamped on either the left or the right lower lip of the differential case not the cover.

According to the 1986 TDM 201.122 with a 5 speed manual transmission came with a 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) tranny and the 3.23 differential up to October 1985 and a 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) and the 3.91 differential starting in November 1985.

As far as potential problems, you should be mindful of the connections between the tranny and drive shaft and the drive shaft and the differential. The tri-lobe yokes come in a couple of different hole diameters with the basic rule being lower HP smaller yokes.

As far as alternative differentials you'll probably need to stick with 124 chassis parts, the rear covers might be swapable as far as mounting the diff, but another concern to be mindful of regarding differentials there are two different axle shaft/connecting flange sizes 86 mm and 94 mm where the majority of 124 cars use the larger, as do the 87 2.5 Turbo cars and the 190E 2.6 cars where most of the other 201 cars use the 86 mm axle and flange.
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  #12  
Old 07-29-2009, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billybob View Post
The ratio will be stamped on either the left or the right lower lip of the differential case not the cover.

According to the 1986 TDM 201.122 with a 5 speed manual transmission came with a 717.410 (GL 68/20 A-5) tranny and the 3.23 differential up to October 1985 and a 717.411 (GL 68/20 B-5) and the 3.91 differential starting in November 1985.

No lip on this diff. That area of the diff is so small I dont think you could stamp anything on there, more of a ridge. The 300d has a large lip on each side with the ratio on the right one.

The other info is very good to know. The 190 diff looks smaller in size to the 300d... maybe I am crazy. I do like that 3.91 ratio though. We will have to wait and see how it comes together.

I will get some basic pics when I get home to the camera.

Thanks
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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #13  
Old 08-05-2009, 11:18 PM
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A new problem has come up.

I just learned, from this thread On The Road and I Have a PROBLEM , that the 190 uses the brake master cylinder as the reservoir for the clutch hydraulic fluid.

So how do I work this into the 300d? Will master cylinders swap? Maybe I can make a clutch reservoir out of something. Plan 3... can I fill the clutch system up and cap off the clutch master cylinder at the pedal?

Anyway got the 190 to Indiana with me.... I will start the swap after I replace the half shafts in my TD.

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08 R320 CDI current

Past
95 E420
87 300D Turbo 5spd
90 300TE
83 300SD
85 300TD
92 400E
85 190D

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  #14  
Old 08-06-2009, 06:07 AM
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Tons of cars have remote clutch MC reservoirs. I would just find one at the junque yard or buy a new one.

Off the top of my head, I remember Toyota trucks in the mid 90's and my F250 have remote res.
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  #15  
Old 08-06-2009, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashedd View Post
I just learned, from this thread On The Road and I Have a PROBLEM , that the 190 uses the brake master cylinder as the reservoir for the clutch hydraulic fluid.

So how do I work this into the 300d? Will master cylinders swap? Maybe I can make a clutch reservoir out of something. Plan 3... can I fill the clutch system up and cap off the clutch master cylinder at the pedal?

Anyway got the 190 to Indiana with me.... I will start the swap after I replace the half shafts in my TD.

check yours, most likely the port is already there you will just have to cut the tip of the nipple to use the brake reservior for your clutch

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