I know I'm late to the party but there is a problem with installing the centrifugal pumps (MRSF and MW) on early engines. The early OM615 and OM616 engines use a pneumatic pump with a separate oil supply. The oil in MRSF and MW pumps is supplied by the engine. Early engines don't have a provision for supplying oil to the MRSF or MW pump.

The MRSF (euro) pump gets its oil from the IP drive shaft. Later OM615 (only euro) and OM616 (W123) engines have this provision. To convert an early pneumatic pump engine to this oiling system requires the later style (type 3) timing device, IP driveshaft and block bushings. The type 3 IP driveshaft has drillings to supply oil through the IP shaft nose. The rear IP shaft bushing in the block has a slot that is part of this oiling system. The front bushing is also different due to an inside diameter change designed to prevent the accidental swapping of parts between types. Despite these changes the block drillings are the same between early and late engines.

The MW pump gets oil from an external oil line that connects to a tap on the block. All OM61x engines have a drilling in this location. This drilling is for the oil gallery that supplies the IP driveshaft etc. However only later (W123) OM615 (euro) and OM616 (US and euro) engines are machined for a banjo bolt. The earlier blocks are plugged. It may be possible to drill the plug and add a banjo bolt but it would be near impossible with the engine in the car. Another solution would be to get the oil supply from the oil sender line.

Unfortunately however, the MW pump will not physically clear the large threaded water jacket plugs on the early blocks. The MRSF will clear them. I have one OM615 factory replacement engine that has the later style (W123) cup plugs but every other W115 OM615/616 I've seen has the large threaded plugs. Grinding the plug may solve the problem but these plugs are gasketed with a straight thread rather than a pipe thread. If the thickness of the head is reduced too much it may leak. Another issue with the MW pump is the mounting angle. Because of its large size its rotated away from the block and on a W115 that gets tight. The factory used the MW in a W115 on the OM617 so it should be possible. Consider though that the OM617 in the W115 chassis is positioned differently.

So basically you can swap any one of the three pumps onto a LATE engine ONLY. When using the M pneumatic or the MRSF the external oil supply for the MW has to be plugged and you're done. All late engines have an IP shaft that will supply oil for an MRSF even if the engine was originally equipped with an MW. If there is any doubt about oil supply remove the vacuum pump and look for a BOLT attaching the timing device. If your timing device is retained by a nut it's either a type one or two and it WILL NOT supply oil to the MRSF.

To convert an early engine you will need a late style IP drive setup to supply oil to the MRSF or an external oil line for an MW. If using an MW block clearance will be an issue unless you're fortunate enough to have cup plugs in the water jacket. If you go with an MRSF and swap in a used IP driveshaft get it from a late (W123)OM616. Be sure to get the oil pump driveshaft since they have run together and need to be replaced as a pair. In fact, the factory won't supply them as separate parts. The NA OM617 uses the same setup but that engine uses a heavy duty oil pump which causes the oil pump drive shaft gears and bushing to wear faster. The ones I've pulled have shown a lot of wear as compared with OM616 engines with similar mileage. Cooljay had a post about this very problem. OM617 Turbo engines have a chain drive oil pump so they don't have an oil pump driveshaft.

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1969 220D 5 Speed (OM616)
1983 240D 4 Speed
1985 300D Auto 376K
1985 300D Auto 275K

Hi VT22D!
Thank You for pointing out all of the subtle design changes between the 615 and the 616. I've never torn down a 615, so I don't know the differences that intimately. I learned some stuff today! I my case I was going putting a vacuum style pump on a latter 616, so it was easy. I just had to plug off the oil supply port on the block. I'm still running the 615 intake on my turbo 616 because it clears the turbo with no modification. I could have cut down the log style 617 intake and welded a cap over the end, but the 615 manifold was an easy, elegant solution. I hope the OP doesn't get discouraged. Most problems are solvable, it just a question of determination and money!
Cheers!
Chris

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1983 Turbocharged 240D
1982 Mazda RX-7
1974 Mazda Rotary Pickup Converted to an EV

How do you run the turbo with the vacuum style governor? Where is the air butterfly valve located?

I'm starting to get confused, I guess that's what I get for reading after doing taxes and having a beer haha. I guess I'm gonna have to look under the hood of my 240 this weekend and see if I can make heads and tails of things

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1982 300D Turbodiesel, daily driver. Mods so far: Fram 8038 paper filter, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 (front) rotors/calipers, boost turned up to 12lbs, non-egr manifolds, water/methanol injection, 4-speed manual
1980 300SD Turbodiesel, project car, nearly ready to hit the street

1974 240D, New paint

Bio240D - You're welcome. I'm glad it's helpful. I did a bit of research on this topic because I want to eliminate the vacuum governor and associated hardware on my 74 OM616.

Lucas - I don't have any turbo modding experience so I'm not sure how well the M pneumatic pump will work with the turbo. I have a few thoughts though.

One thing that concerns me is the butterfly arrangement on the early engine. It generates a slight vacuum that increases with engine speed. This vacuum is applied to the diaphragm to govern the engine. If butterfly stays in the stock location and boost is applied the vacuum port will be pressurized and the pump won't be able to govern. The engine might even run away. If the butterfly is moved to the turbo intake the vacuum signal will be increased by the increased intake airflow under boost. In that case the the pump will govern too early limiting fuel under boost.

If the vacuum port were modified to reduce the vacuum signal it could possible govern properly but there still isn't any provision to increase fueling under boost.

I know turbo kits were made for M pneumatic equipped engines so there must be a way around this. For mild boost turning up the pump and adjusting the governor signal might work well enough.

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1969 220D 5 Speed (OM616)
1983 240D 4 Speed
1985 300D Auto 376K
1985 300D Auto 275K

I was under the impression the vacuum governor was mostly just there to help smooth out the idle?

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1982 300D Turbodiesel, daily driver. Mods so far: Fram 8038 paper filter, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 (front) rotors/calipers, boost turned up to 12lbs, non-egr manifolds, water/methanol injection, 4-speed manual
1980 300SD Turbodiesel, project car, nearly ready to hit the street

1974 240D, New paint

The pneumatic governor limits the maximum rpm of the engine. The MRSF and MW IP use a flyweight governor. The M pneumatic uses a vacuum signal that increases with engine speed. The full load stop screw is on the throttle assembly not the pump. The screw adjusts the butterfly which changes the vacuum on the pump diaphragm to get the desired max RPM.

Because these pumps are governed by vacuum pulling more air through the butterfly will strengthen the vacuum signal and reduce fuel. Pushing more air will pressurize the diaphragm resulting in over fueling and possible runaway. At the very least the engine would no longer be governed.

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1969 220D 5 Speed (OM616)
1983 240D 4 Speed
1985 300D Auto 376K
1985 300D Auto 275K

How does vacuum increase with speed? The butterfly opens with throttle and so there would be less vacuum at higher speeds?

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1982 300D Turbodiesel, daily driver. Mods so far: Fram 8038 paper filter, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 (front) rotors/calipers, boost turned up to 12lbs, non-egr manifolds, water/methanol injection, 4-speed manual
1980 300SD Turbodiesel, project car, nearly ready to hit the street

1974 240D, New paint

The vacuum is created by the engine pulling in air. My question is what is the function of the butterfly at idle? Does it keep vacuum so the pump can "identify" where it is? In simple terms...

I came across the original article on turboing the 220D, and you are correct, there was no governor on the engine. It was a really low boost. Like 6 psi.

If you have a look at chapter 07-010 =>

http://www.startekinfo.com/StarTek/outside/12265/disc_2/program/Engine/615/07-010.pdf

All is explained.

There's a differential pressure situation either side of what is sometimes called the goat's bladder (!) - when this dies the M pump set up with the venturi (throttle valve) system idles high because the spring in the governor side of the pump pushes the pump to the full load position...

...clear as mud?

(Then read the book!)

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

That's more along the lines of how I thought it worked

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1982 300D Turbodiesel, daily driver. Mods so far: Fram 8038 paper filter, 4 brake light mod, Gen II w126 (front) rotors/calipers, boost turned up to 12lbs, non-egr manifolds, water/methanol injection, 4-speed manual
1980 300SD Turbodiesel, project car, nearly ready to hit the street

1974 240D, New paint

It would be easier to upgrade engine.If they put a cummins in a caddy,surely,on would fit in a Benz.

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1999 w140, quit voting to old, and to old to fight, a god damned veteran

Clear as mud is right. Lol. That site is down for maintenance. As well, Ive never been able to get on. Will try later. But i have a fsm. Should check it out.

I understood enough to not fudge with it. Interedting side note, that butterfly valve tends to develop some play after decades. My IP guy said to take the bolt out and drill it and put a bushing in. Can loose some vacuum through the worn hole.

Yeah when I first blew my motor I dreamed of a 617 turbo. But I wasn't ready for such a project. The plan was to drive the car and learn, but it spun a bearing a week after I bought it.

Then I was dreaming about an original turbo kit. Make it a nostalgic piece of history. But now the work season is on, and I havent got to the body work.

As well, I want a 108. And a big turbo motor. So I've been polishing all week (in spare time), and gonna sell it.

108 with a 606? Yes please. Theres a guy on here doing it. I hope he finishes first so I dont have to learn the hard way.

The PDFs take a long time to load even on my fast internet connection here. But if you've got the FSM chapter 07-010 in the W123 FSM is what you need (look in non turbo section - cos the story is different in the turbo one - there you can read about ALDAs!)

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1992 W201 190E 1.8 171,000 km - Daily driver
1981 W123 300D ~ 100,000 miles / 160,000 km - project car stripped to the bone
1965 Land Rover Series 2a Station Wagon CIS recovery therapy!
1961 Volvo PV544 Bare metal rat rod-ish thing

I'm here to chat about cars and to help others - I'm not here "to always be right" like an internet warrior



Don't leave that there - I'll take it to bits!

Ahhhh. A screen popped up saying "down for maintance". But will check back.

My fsm is 114...