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#1
09-04-2006, 06:54 PM
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Timing Chains Don't Last Forever
Last edited by whunter; 12-09-2011 at 10:27 PM. 
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#2
01-12-2011, 12:32 PM
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More data on topic
Roller chain
Roller chain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Roller Chain Wear Life Diamond Chain | Roller Chain Wear Life DESIGN FORMULAS FOR ASA ROLLER CHAIN SPROCKETS OmniGear & Machine Corp. Mechanical Design Handbook: Standard roller chain drive design The Complete Guide to Chain The Complete Guide to Chain Last edited by whunter; 12-09-2011 at 10:33 PM.
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#3
01-12-2011, 01:23 PM
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Timing chain stretch does not exist
This was written in response to the owner of a 300SD, but is generic to all roller chains.
Timing chain stretch does not exist = it is wear on the pins and bushings = Wear Elongation Measurement. Chain elongation/wear is not corrected by an offset Woodruff key.. I have stopped checking timing chain elongation/wear on any engine over 250,000 miles, the labor/time is identical to replace the chain. The cost of a chain is cheap insurance, and generally improves performance. My rule of thumb is 200-250K miles I replace the timing chain = don't waste money/time checking it.. If the timing has not been changed since new = replacing the timing chain will bring the timing back where it belongs. IMO: If the chain has measurable elongation/wear = Replace it regardless of mileage!!! A worn chain is damaging the sprockets. What is running a damaged/worn out timing chain going to cost ? At least (by the labor time guide) 4.7 hrs labor + all of these parts.... Crankshaft gear MB# 617 052 00 03 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=617+052+00+03&x=12&y=11 Camshaft gear MB# 121 052 03 01 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=121+052+03+01&I1.x=4&I1.y=6 sprocket gear MB# 621 050 04 09 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=621+050+04+09&I1.x=15&I1.y=6 Timing device MB# 617 070 05 45 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=617+070+05+45&I1.x=7&I1.y=4 Damage cost TOTAL $1,222.00 + Labor The minimum cost of parts for a DIY rebuild is roughly $1550 - $2000 USD. OM617.952 Rebuild parts list OM617.952 Rebuild parts list *************************************************** There is only one brand of timing chain to use. Warning, Danger: Please read this thread FIRST... Need Automotive Grade Prozac Need Automotive Grade Prozac = timing chain OEM: brand IWIS Timing Chain, With Master Link Double Row - 136 Links MB# 003 997 62 94 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=003+997+62+94&I1.x=10&I1.y=3&FILTER_997M=ON The best guide rail is SWAG MB# 6150500916[ http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=6150500916&I1.x=15&I1.y=9 upper guide rail MB# 6150501416 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=6150501416&I1.x=10&I1.y=10 lower outer guide rail MB# 6150521016 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=6150521016&I1.x=14&I1.y=5 lower inner guide rail MB# 6150521116 http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/ksearch/pel_search.cgi?SUPERCAT_FLAG=Y&make=MBZ&please_wait=N&forumid=&threadid=&command=DWsearch&descriptio n=6150521116&I1.x=14&I1.y=8 FYI: Links you may need: PeachParts Mercedes ShopForum > Do It Yourself Links & Resources > DIY Links by Parts Category Fast navigation Do It Yourself Links Fast navigation Do It Yourself Links Valve adjustment OM615, 616, 617 FYI. Valve adjustment OM615, 616, 617 FYI. Need Definitive OM617 Compression Test Procedure Need Definitive OM617 Compression Test Procedure Engine blow-by test, Blow a bag of blow-by http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/193602-engine-blow-test-blow-bag-blow.html#post1558819 Diesel Timing Chain Links Thread http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/diesel-discussion/162071-diesel-timing-chain-thread.html#post1251434 Timing Chains Don't Last Forever Timing Chains Don't Last Forever Diesel Injection: Diesel Injection: Last edited by whunter; 10-24-2012 at 03:40 PM.
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#4
01-12-2011, 09:14 PM
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So, what's the labor run (hours?) for a timing chain replacement. I was thinking about having my stretch checked when I have new injectors put in, however...if it costs the same, it's a no-brainer. Same advice apply for the OM603 as the OM617 above?
I'm at a little over 240k with no known replacement.
__________________
1982 240D, sold 9/17/2008 1987 300D TurboW124.133 - 603.960, 722.317 - Smoke Silver Metallic / Medium Red (702/177), acquired 8/15/2009 262,715 and counting 
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#5
01-13-2011, 04:09 AM
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Answer
Quote:
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#6
05-08-2011, 08:29 AM
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what?
We are at around 280k miles on the '95 E300 with the original chain. Once the shop gets up (within a couple weeks  ) I am going to put the car in there and probably roll in a new chain along with rebuilding the front suspension. I have replaced all the guides on the timing chain and the oil pump chain on the car.
__________________
Jim
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#7
05-08-2011, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
100% true. Replaced the timing chain on my 83 300D at 335,000 miles on the original chain. Made this repair right before 10,000 mile plus road trip. Cheap insurance, 900 bucks spent with cost of new chain included, done by trusted shop down the street. Performance of the car changed dramatically, as whunter said, timing had not been adjusted for 300,000 miles, and slop in the chain was directly affecting performance. Felt like another 15 to 20 hp added.
__________________
This post brought to you by Carl's Jr.
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#8
05-08-2011, 05:03 PM
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But I thought all chain drives were infallible and ran forever with no PM!
  -J
__________________
1991 350SDL. 230,000 miles (new motor @ 150,000). 2013 Fiat 500E. 20,000 miles, 80 miles at a time. 2012 Passat TDI. 95,000 miles. More space, power, and fuel economy than the Benz  2004 Touareg V10 TDI. 150,000 miles. One of 450. 1999 Jetta TDI. 310,000 miles. 1992 Jetta ECOdiesel. 156,000 miles. 1 of 48. Sold. 1991 Jetta ECOdiesel. 430,000 miles. 1 of 700. Sold to VeeDubTDI, totaled in front of our house
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#9
09-30-2012, 02:41 PM
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FYI
Many examples of what a bad chain can do to any sprocket, from bicycles to stationary equipment or mega machines.
worn out chain sprocket - Google Search . Last edited by whunter; 09-30-2012 at 05:03 PM.
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#10
11-19-2016, 08:26 PM
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[QUOTE=whunter;2634368]This was written in response to the owner of a 300SD, but is generic to all roller chains.
Timing chain stretch does not exist = it is wear on the pins and bushings = Wear Elongation Measurement. Chain elongation/wear is not corrected by an offset Woodruff key.. I have stopped checking timing chain elongation/wear on any engine over 250,000 miles, the labor/time is identical to replace the chain. The cost of a chain is cheap insurance, and generally improves performance. My rule of thumb is 200-250K miles I replace the timing chain = don't waste money/time checking it.. If the timing has not been changed since new = replacing the timing chain will bring the timing back where it belongs. IMO: If the chain has measurable elongation/wear = Replace it regardless of mileage!!! A worn chain is damaging the sprockets. What is running a damaged/worn out timing chain going to cost ? At least (by the labor time guide) 4.7 hrs labor + all of these parts.... [sic] end quote. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////// Thanks Whunter, I had my timing chain done on my 1979 300D @197,700 miles last week with your recommendation in mind. Cheap insurance. I could have waited another year or more but I needed the valves adjusted and I was available and mentally primed for this service. Now my car runs noticeably better. Sure the valve adjustment helps but its a bit more than that. For San Francisco bay Area folks, David Pham is a great mechanic . He is conscientious and has a holistic approach to your car. i.e. he goes the 9 yards on particular services but does not nickel and dime ya.. 1.510.813.2456 Oakland CA. (has strong accent) He also replaced my shut down valve that had begun to show oil seepage.
__________________
1979 300D 199 K miles 1995 C280 95 K miles 1992 Cadillac Eldorado Touring Coupe 57K miles ******************** 1979 240D 140Kmiles (bought for parents) *SOLD.SAN FRANCISCO/(*San Diego) 1989 300SE 148 K miles *SOLD
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#11
11-19-2016, 09:30 PM
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Grin
You are welcome.
.
__________________
ASE Master Mechanic asemastermechanic@juno.com Prototype R&D/testing: Thermal & Aerodynamic System Engineering (TASE) Senior vehicle instrumentation technician. Noise Vibration and Harshness (NVH). Dynamometer. Heat exchanger durability. HV-A/C Climate Control. Prototype Vehicle build. Prototype Fleet Durability Prototype vehicle instrumentation. Technical Quality Auditor. Automotive Technical Writer 1973 300D 1973 309D - stolen 1978 280SE 1980 240D 1983 300D 1984 190D
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