I stole this from another board, but it's ripe for discussion. I doubt many here will disagree with what Forbes has to say.

http://mbnz.org/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=1202220&posts=6&fid=44

"Carmakers are never satisfied with their current positions in the marketplace.

For example, next year BMW will likely bring its smallest car, the 1 Series, to the U.S. And DaimlerChrysler's (nyse: DCX - news - people ) Mercedes-Benz likewise will bring its smallest models here, too--although the carmaker seems in a perpetual state of indecision about which models to bring and when.

But we're not at all indecisive about small, inexpensive BMWs and Benzes. We think it's a silly idea.

Why, for heaven's sake, should the hallmarks of aspirational brands--right up there with Rolex--stoop to Timex status and compete to see who has the cheapest toys? In this country, Mercedes and BMW are icons. Their badges alone mean you've "made it," so there's little point in making these badges more widely available.

In simplest terms, people "graduate" to Mercedes and BMW status. Aspirational brands have status because they aren't easily obtained. They lose this allure when they go on sale at the outlet mall. How exclusive is a Ralph Lauren suit when you can buy it at Marshalls?

Preserving status should be the No. 1 mission for luxury brands."

He on target, ironically he mentioned Rolex which is far from the best brand but has advertised and created the perception that it is.

There is a huge difference between actual value and perceived value. I'm not slamming the Rolex guys I'm just telling it how it is. The fact is today Toyota is a better car than Mercedes but the general publics perception is much different. Mercedes should forget about these el cheapo cars and concentrate on the qualities that made it the marque it's in the process of destroying.

No doubt! There are quality control issues with my E55 that you normally don't even see in an domestic car that is twenty years old. It's not a POS but there are some issues that should not be there on a car that is this expensive. I don't even think the Koreans have problems like these on their cars. Then again, I'd guess that's why they are all ranked higher than Mercedes in quality.

If Toyota made a new car that was exciting, I'd probably buy one. Their cars are just so damn boring.

Wow, and I didn't even know I'd "made it". What did I make?

LOL me either........

We'll just call my 8 year old 202 a dangling carrot that leads to the CL65 down the road.

After I "make" it, that is.

Perception really is everything, look at how much company's pay for a name. Mercedes is best known for prestige, quality and safety. I'm not so sure they are leaps and bounds ahead of other manufactures in safety like the were 20 years ago that leaves MB with prestige if that erodes like quality has you can bet you will be able to buy re badged Impala's with the MB star on the front.

I want to get a new MB badly but I am scared to death of the quality issues, so I'm leaning to the dark side like Ted did. I am way too hard on a car to deal with maintenance issues that can be avoided at the drawing board.

IMO MB has to do something big to upgrade quality fast. It took GM 5 years to be at the top I would like to see MB do the same and IMHO ditch the C-class in the US or sell it as a Dodge Uranus.

A post this ignorant deserves another viewpoint.
What is with this U.S. mindset about MB standing as some hallmark of "prestige"?

Mercedes-Benz used to signal durability, dependability and safety to many people. Did this "prestige" thing get created in the United States, before or after the whole Packard-Studebaker-MB debacle? Max Hoffman, importing these vehicles beforehand with celebs buying them up? Hugh Heffner? What?

Doctors to bus drivers operate Mercedes-Benz badged vehicles in countries around the world without "prestige" even being considered. I look at the MB sprinter vans used by FEDEX and now even Canada Post and smile with joy.

People who cry outrage at the BMW 1 series and MB A Klasse and the like need to deflate their egos. We need to stop tough talking, uniformed "piss on you, look at me" arrogant attitudes from proliferating any further.

If I ever finish school and graduate, I'd like to order a 320 CDI with MB tex interior, hubcabs (I hate how in the US and Canada the E's come with alloy wheels with 5 spokes and their pseudo-sporting connotations) power mirrors/locks/windows/winter package with light washers/heated seats and base everything else. Will that happen, that amount of choice offered to consumers here? Not until we can change this terrible mindset which plagues North America (Canada to a lesser extinct I'd like to think but, I'd be biased to say that).

Medmech, I cannot believe it was you who wrote this post, in the past you've made some insightful, intelligent and very funny remarks which I've enjoyed reading. Who is this impostor????

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1989 300CE - 269,000 km
1994 SL600 - 59,000 km

I drive MB's cuz they make excellent taxi cabs--I drive a glorified taxi...but, apparently I've "made it" too. If not MB, then what...Checker? Nothing screams prestige like a Checker.

It's the motor city mentality, if you have lived in a car town your entire life you start to think like them.

Many people think differently about brand name, better educated folks prefer safety oriented brands because they cherish that soft melon atop their head but theres other folks that buy MB because of the melons between their legs. I'm not bashing the C class at all I personally think that in order for MB to get back to the top as a brand they have to make some tough decision's before they are overrun by Toyota, I bet MB is a name they would love to own.

Think that MB is not perceived as a prestigious car is just plain ignorant. Nobody would pay what they are for them today if they were labeled Hyundai.


Where's that article about German cabbies ditching MB for Audi?

Compete in every category and own a roughly equal share in each class?

Compete in few categories and own most of the market share in their respective markets?

From a gaming perspective, MB would gain more ground to pick the first option. There is no reason why current MB owners cannot be enticed to purchase a new A-Class. It takes years to go from A to S, but seconds from S to A.

It requires no advertising. MB is not looking for a new driver-enabler model. It's already there:

16 yr. old: Dad can I have a new cool MB?

Dad: Sure kid. Pick one with a GPS.

Brand loyalty starts earlier and earlier. If MB finally manages to make a reliability its top priority again that is.

I think at least that's what they're wishing!

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

BMW should use it's name on the mini.....not.

That was a really good move by BMW. I think VW was stupid to brand the Phaeton a VW. Too bad MB can't reintroduce any non-MB branded favorites, oh wait, they still have this inflated egotistical notion about the MB brand.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Passenger cars are not garbage trucks. We are not talking about marketing a different kind of vehicle to an industry or business, we are talking about marketing a different category or passenger car to a different group of passenger car buyers. Mercedes has been known for decades as the builder of competent, luxurious autos, at least in the US. Toyota and Honda have been known for decades as the builders of competent, reliable compacts. Nobody is going to beat Honda or Toyota (or now even Hyundai) at that game. MB needs to stick with what it does best. Quick sales numbers of low-end cars to people who just want a Benz is great for profit in the short term, but when you start shooting for numbers, and turning out restyled models and new models every 2-5 years, quality suffers. Maybe not for Honda, but for a company like MB, that strategy does not jibe with a decades-old corporate philosophy of letting the engineers build the right cars.

I think we've seen what the strategy change has done for quality and reliability in the last few years. My family owns 4 post-2002 MBs, their first Mercedes in each case, and none of the 4 plan to buy again.

Thats sad and indicative.

Will,

You are contradicting yourself here. You mention the decades-old corporate philosophy of letting the engineers build the right cars but, speak of quick sales of "low-end" cars with restyled models and quality suffering.

There is not correlation between the smaller MB's being of lower quality then other more expensive MB models. Quality is a relative term which I hate to use. I'll use durability instead. There is no correlation there either that "low-end" cars are less durable, if anything they would be more dependable or reliable than fully optioned out high line MB's, reason being the lower levels of add ons to fail.

Back to letting engineers building the "right cars". The reason the oldies were so damn good was because the engineers did have more sway in the buildup of products coming to market, no question. Also they had more time to test and department budgets weren't as much of a concern in those days (before Germany became overrun with post-modernist scumbags such as the two Schrempps). MB is part of DCX now, and together they are in the business to make great product margins, not great products. Great margins are maintained by offering useless gadget gimmikry that is made cheaply and pushed on consumer lemmings, promoted as the latest and greatest. I personally believe the relative restraint in terms of outright features the old cars had (remember not being able to adjust the wheel?) contributed to the dependability, reliability and "quality" inherent within the oldies. Also, less features enabled less distraction from enjoying the vehicle itself. Remember when consumers paid attention to its design rather than "deals" and "toys"?

The old guard has met its demise completely now with the ending of the W463. Once the last one is complete and the so called new "G" becomes the bloated, ML big brother the last of the "built to a standard not to a price" MB's will be gone forever.

Why not bring in the new models? There is nothing left of the old, earned reputation to degrade or tarnish after the death of the W463. All current MB's excluding it are disposable products anyway, even the Maybach (think of the old BMW 750's from the late eighties and that will be a Maybach in twenty years).

This "prestige" bu11**** is nothing more than ones own mindset. Intelligent people do not care. People who want "prestige" and the ability to impress, will have to buy one of the Bentley Arnages or the Rolls Phantoms to get the kind of exclusivity you'll need to capture "prestige". People need to get over themselves.

Will this arrogant mindset ever stop?

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1989 300CE - 269,000 km
1994 SL600 - 59,000 km