Oil Reserves - Page 2 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

AustinsCE · #16 03-06-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 300SD81

Everyone produce biodiesel

$0.80/gallon + good for the enviorment, sounds great to me..

Not me

cmac2012 · #17 03-06-2007, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

With all due respect, replacing oil is impossible with current technologies. There is nothing, absolutely nothing on the planet that can produce the btu energy of oil or coal. Nothing else is so portable, or mutable. Nothing else is as efficient. I'm talking big picture efficiency, ease of use, etc. There is no substance or technology that has been able to lift mankind as far away from the caves of our ancestors as oil (or coal). Everything you do, everything you are, is by and of these products. The food, medicine, clothing; everything. The very reason we enjoy the high standard of living today is because we've figured out how to deliver an almost unlimited supply of electrical energy to every home in the US and much of the world.

Your absolutely right. Nothing can replace it. If we come up with a good way to use nuclear energy to produce a portable fuel, hydrogen, I'm guessing, we'd have to build nuke plants at a furious pace to replace the current btus we get from oil.

That's a lot of the reason we need to cut way back. However much we manage to get out of old wells, it is still a finite amount, essentially irreplaceable. And a nuke or three in every county is not a desirable situation. We leave a lousy legacy to our descendants. Imagine the chaos if it ran out today. Imagine the chaos if it runs out with twice our current population and similar usage levels.

We waste unbelievable amounts of it because we can. It's not out of the question to live 60 miles from your job because we have the petrol to transport us. We're setting ourselves further and further out on a limb by continuing to expand our oil dependent way of life.

kknudson · #18 03-06-2007, 12:34 AM

Actually, if you think we have it rough, wait till our kids have to deal with water issue's.

dlssmith · #19 03-06-2007, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

I guess most people don't care about pollution, global warming, and oil dependency. I suppose oil at any price tag will work for the privileged few who will be able to afford it in the not so distant future. Most folks aren't worried about the current and future wars that will occur when the spigots gets turned off. Let's not worry about the future for our kids and grand kids, let us enjoy the temporary promised bonanza while it lasts. And when the time does eventually occur that oil can no longer supply our homes and cars and infrastructure, we can look back and say why didn't the government act to prevent the collapse of our world.

It is naive to suggest that the promise of energy from oil is a "temporary promised bonanza". Promised by whom?

War will turn the spigot off, not the other way around. OPEC doesn't want to stop selling oil, anymore than they want to stop spending money.

Your world might collapse for some reason, but the rest of us will be comfortable in our homes, using our Mr. Fusion nuclear reactors (trademark 2150 a.d.) Which were made possible by innovations powered by oil way back in the 21st century.

There is a constant scientific effort in this country and elsewhere to build technologies that make electricity from other sources. They're building big atom smashers in a couple of places on the planet to find out more about nuclear power, but right now the best, cheapest way to build one of them is to use earth moving equipment powered by OIL!

cmac2012 · #20 03-06-2007, 12:42 AM

That is the one good possibility, that we could buy time til we get the big breakthrough.

One problem is, that when we have what looks like unlimited energy, we rearrange the surface of the earth a bit willy-nilly. Such as here in Cal, Schwarzenegger's people say at current rates of growth, the Central Valley, just about the best farmland in the world, will be covered with suburbia by 2100.

450slcguy · #21 03-06-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

With all due respect, replacing oil is impossible with current technologies. There is nothing, absolutely nothing on the planet that can produce the btu energy of oil or coal. Nothing else is so portable, or mutable. Nothing else is as efficient. I'm talking big picture efficiency, ease of use, etc. There is no substance or technology that has been able to lift mankind as far away from the caves of our ancestors as oil (or coal). Everything you do, everything you are, is by and of these products. The food, medicine, clothing; everything. The very reason we enjoy the high standard of living today is because we've figured out how to deliver an almost unlimited supply of electrical energy to every home in the US and much of the world.

You say you don't want to be at the mercy of greedy oil empires, or under threat of war for oil, but have you stopped to consider that energy will be controlled by some one, no matter what the energy is made from? A giant solar energy cartel based in the earth's deserts is likely to emerge if we perfect that technology - you'll have to buy it from some one.

Your sound bites, all 10 or 11 of them, despite their passion, are lacking in logic. You could do much more for humanity by promoting the dissemination of current energy technology to everyone on the planet. What a goal, "An electric outlet in every home on earth within 10 years!!! Rather than world bank suppression of the construction of oil and coal fired power plants in the third world, because they "pollute". We live here in America, all electrically wired, amongst all this "pollution" - yet we live to an average age of 78?

A couple of years ago in France during a fairly common place heatwave, over 15,000 people died, mainly in their homes. Air conditioning would have saved most of them, but since the French government prices electricity so high, few can afford to operate an airconditioner. A couple of coal fired power plants would have saved 15000 people!!!! So much for passionate soundbites.

And just what oil company do you work for?

dlssmith · #22 03-06-2007, 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

That is the one good possibility, that we could buy time til we get the big breakthrough.

One problem is, that when we have what looks like unlimited energy, we rearrange the surface of the earth a bit willy-nilly. Such as here in Cal, Schwarzenegger's people say at current rates of growth, the Central Valley, just about the best farmland in the world, will be covered with suburbia by 2100.

Now you've hit upon a real problem, that all the oil or wind farms in the world can't fix. Land use. And by extention, water use.

Historically, more energy = higher population. A generation or two of good crops in a region made for a much higher birthrate. To an extent, we are experiencing the same thing today, in some places. California is a good example. But people are addicted to the suburban scheme. High rise living is really best, but not too common, yet. I've always thought New York City was the most efficient use of space in America. Hong Kong in Asia. Stacked people. Works out well to preserve farming spaces.

cmac2012 · #23 03-06-2007, 12:51 AM

It's a toughy. I don't really want to live in highly stacked conditions but you're right. It's coming.

Can you imagine losing most all of the Central Valley to suburbia?

dlssmith · #24 03-06-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 450slcguy

And just what oil company do you work for?

I don't work for any oil company, or anything of the sort. I am realistic. Oil and coal are what we have for now. Their services will not be required forever. Neither will we run out of them before alternatives are perfected. You could do well to encourage your children to embark on scientific careers to find the answers. But encouraging your children to parrot soundbites about how "evil" oil is, wastes their time, and is insulting. You can't get along without oil/coal, and you shouldn't be telling others to either.

Oil and coal are the means to an end game of sustainable, clean energy. But this sustainable energy is yet to be perfected. Be patient, it will come.

dlssmith · #25 03-06-2007, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

It's a toughy. I don't really want to live in highly stacked conditions but you're right. It's coming.

Can you imagine losing most all of the Central Valley to suburbia?

As a farm boy from Iowa, I've always been fascinated by California agriculture. It is truely a miracle. If our ancestors, just 150 years ago, could see the central valley, I believe it would shock them beyond almost any other achievement of modern man.

justinperkins · #26 03-06-2007, 01:29 AM

The earth is going to cave in on itself by the time all this "new technology" runs it's course.

I'm headed for Mars.

A264172 · #27 03-06-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

...Folks, there isn't enough land in the US to grow the crops necessary to do this and feed ourselves. Then there is all the energy to make those fuels. I guess we'll just have to import it.

Anarticle:
http://www.theoildrum.com/story/2006/11/27/0432/3533

justinperkins · #28 03-06-2007, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

With all due respect, replacing oil is impossible with current technologies. There is nothing, absolutely nothing on the planet that can produce the btu energy of oil or coal. Nothing else is so portable, or mutable. Nothing else is as efficient. I'm talking big picture efficiency, ease of use, etc. There is no substance or technology that has been able to lift mankind as far away from the caves of our ancestors as oil (or coal). Everything you do, everything you are, is by and of these products. The food, medicine, clothing; everything. The very reason we enjoy the high standard of living today is because we've figured out how to deliver an almost unlimited supply of electrical energy to every home in the US and much of the world.

You say you don't want to be at the mercy of greedy oil empires, or under threat of war for oil, but have you stopped to consider that energy will be controlled by some one, no matter what the energy is made from? A giant solar energy cartel based in the earth's deserts is likely to emerge if we perfect that technology - you'll have to buy it from some one.

Your sound bites, all 10 or 11 of them, despite their passion, are lacking in logic. You could do much more for humanity by promoting the dissemination of current energy technology to everyone on the planet. What a goal, "An electric outlet in every home on earth within 10 years!!! Rather than world bank suppression of the construction of oil and coal fired power plants in the third world, because they "pollute". We live here in America, all electrically wired, amongst all this "pollution" - yet we live to an average age of 78?

A couple of years ago in France during a fairly common place heatwave, over 15,000 people died, mainly in their homes. Air conditioning would have saved most of them, but since the French government prices electricity so high, few can afford to operate an airconditioner. A couple of coal fired power plants would have saved 15000 people!!!! So much for passionate soundbites.

We are dependent because oil companies, car companies all with the help of governments have guided us down the path of oil dependence over the last 100 years.

In the 1800's, the US used more hemp than oil. In the early 1900's, most US cities had very decent (respectable even by today's standards) electric rail systems. Where are they now? Who took them away?

450slcguy · #29 03-06-2007, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlssmith

I don't work for any oil company, or anything of the sort. I am realistic. Oil and coal are what we have for now. Their services will not be required forever. Neither will we run out of them before alternatives are perfected. You could do well to encourage your children to embark on scientific careers to find the answers. But encouraging your children to parrot soundbites about how "evil" oil is, wastes their time, and is insulting. You can't get along without oil/coal, and you shouldn't be telling others to either.

Oil and coal are the means to an end game of sustainable, clean energy. But this sustainable energy is yet to be perfected. Be patient, it will come.

Stop with the "soundbites" nonsense. You made some good points that are hard to dispute and I agree with most of them. The difference is that I think we should be further along with the alternate energy technologies than we are. Not enough alternate R&D in proportion to the enormous challenge to overcome the problems created by consumption growth and the environmental consequences. Yes patience is the required, but so is the urgency to reduce our foreign oil dependency and to address our environmental concerns. I personally think it will be to late by the year 2150 or even 2050.

cmac2012 · #30 03-06-2007, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kknudson

Actually, if you think we have it rough, wait till our kids have to deal with water issue's.

Yup...