So sorry, almighty one. I failed to see that. Thought I'd add a reason for why I felt that they should be dismissed when I thought of it. I didn't realize we could only answer once.

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
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I doubt it.
They certainly shouldn’t.
But who knows how this thing will unfold.

If anyone (airline, FAA, press…) buys the argument story. They should be grounded and on the streets for being so ignorant as to ignore where they were. And I don’t just mean where they were over the ground.

If it comes out that they admit they fell asleep. Then they should be grounded and on the streets for making up the BS argument story in the first place.

Their best bet would have been to admit to (or even make up that they did) falling asleep and subjecting the whole incident for pilot fatigue studies.
Making up a story about an argument, much less actually having one that took you so far off your responsibilities, are both grounds for dismissal in my book.

I just can not grasp that they missed their destination due to a heated debate over airline policy. Or anything for that matter. Talk about total complacency.
Even if you’re having a knock-down drag-out over it, you’re still awake and conscious of the fact that you are in charge of where you are and what you need to do. Sorry - I’m not buying the argument story.

If I had to bet, I’d for sure go with they fell asleep.
CVR might help solve it. Might not.
I’ve sat in a few FAA/Pilot “interrogations”. They can get pretty nasty.
I think one of these guys (probably the right seat.) will crack and admit they both fell asleep. At least I hope so.

If you were at a small table by the door of a quaint little restaurant, having the most heated debate with your worst enemy over anything. You’d still know where you were and what was around you. If not…Yikes. Hope you’re not a pilot.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

You can answer anytime you want...........as many times as you want.

However, your position is pretty obvious and based on an underlying distaste for any union behavior.

I asked the pilot for a reason..........he's actually in that industry...........we're not.

I'd imagine if they were asleep they'd wake up when their low fuel alarm went off.

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If you're awake. Then 2 miles, is 2 miles too far off for an "oops".
No excuse if you're awake.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Since these guys are not completely stupid, they must have known that the CVR would have erased the period in question.

My real question is whether they managed to concoct their story during the last 45 minutes of the flight..........and that would be the kiss of death for them if the tape is played.

However, if they sat there completely mum about the incident..........for the entire return ride back to Minneapolis...........when did they have the time to concoct their "argument" story?

This drama becomes more interesting by the minute...............

When I get puked on by a baby in a blue suit, I avoid babies in blue suits. When I stop seeing unions protecting the incompetent and those that deserve to be fired, I will have a better opinion of them. So far, the number of union stewards that I have seen that refuse to help someone that richly deserves the punishment he/she gets is about 3. Most of them are the other way. What do you expect me to think? That the next union I run into will be #4?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

It was an observation............not an accusation.

Yep.

It could very well have taken something like that.

I’ve had plenty of days where I had far more radio communications than face to face communications.

Sometimes you can get to where you can hear it in your sleep.

And no, it doesn’t wake you up.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

If they knew what type of CVR they were up against. They could have bet their necks on the thing not providing their “kiss of death”.
If not. They could have used note pads or simply leaned over and whispered to each other.
It will be interesting to hear what they had to say (on the CVR) either way.
I’d think that one of them would mention missing it by 150 miles even in the last 30/45 minutes of the flight.

My money is on “Nap time !!”.
Keep in mind that someone was trying to raise them far before they started their overshoot. Even in a heated debate, one of them would have heard something that would have snapped them out of it. But not a deep snooze.

“Since these guys are not completely stupid…”
That’s an odd statement from someone who feels most everyone is a moron.
And don’t bet any money on them not being completely stupid either.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

You might be right...........maybe they'll bury themselves..............thereby refuting my original premise and supporting my general position about most people.

I think I'll pass on the bet............

Smart move.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

Damn, boys !!

Shelby just landed back from NOLA and flames came out of her right main !!

That aint good.

Standby – While I radio her to our place and check this out.

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1980 300D - Veggie Burner !

1 obvious omission in your thought process. You are behind the computer thinking about all of these ideas AFTER the fact. They are doing it DURING the fact. You wake up and see a military jet beside or behind you. You are scrambling to find out where you are at so you take the appropriate response. Then you probably have to talk to the control tower who will be asking questions. You are also wondering what you will be up against when the plane lands. If that isn't enough, you have the small matter of the jet you were supposed to be flying and the 100+ irate passengers. It might be difficult for them to think rationally about how to kill some time so the CVR wipes out what they have spoken or their snoring in the past hour. With all that is going on, do you think it will be easy to remember how long the CVR takes recordings? Are you sure it is 30 mins? Perhaps it is 1 hr? Or was it 2 hrs?

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01 Ford Excursion Powerstroke
99 E300 Turbodiesel
91 Vette with 383 motor
05 Polaris Sportsman 800 EFI
06 Polaris Sportsman 500 EFI
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Red
03 SeaDoo GTX SC Yellow
04 Tailgator 21 ft Toy Hauler
11 Harley Davidson 883 SuperLow

All true............however, because they put forth a story about an "argument", one might conclude that they covered the base regarding the CVR.

This would be the "not completely stupid" approach that I took originally.

You missed the part that John mentioned regarding my likely erroneous assumption.