You need to study up on the subject of "stop loss"
"Currently, the Army is the only service that uses the stop-loss program. As of January, 13,217 soldiers had tours extended under the stop-loss policy."
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/03/18/pentagon.stoploss.ending/index.html

Thank you. I was going to make reference to people I personally knew that had been affected by this, but your reference was much more effective.

As for numbers of people actually joining going up after 9/11.... considering it was 8 years ago, I may be misquoting the article - it could be that the number of PHONE CALLS by those seeking to join the military didn't change, while there was a spike in phone calls by those seeking to avoid the draft. Actually, I would be pleased if that were indeed the case and recruitment did go up following that event.

As for getting people to retire early/paying them to get out....uhh, dude, that was the early and mid 90's when that was going full force - we're talking post-2003 post-Iraqi Freedom - and the Navy was the only one that had early retirement going - when they started the force reduction under Dad Bush in the early 90's, Army and Air Force were kicking people out literally days short of retirement - Navy was the only one that slowed down recuritment, shut down one or more boot camps, and offered people an early reduced retirement, so they at least got something if they were short of 20 years besides a plane ticket home.

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Just say "NO" to Ethanol - Drive Diesel

Mitchell Oates
Mooresville, NC
'87 300D 212K miles
'87 300D 151K miles - R.I.P. 12/08
'05 Jeep Liberty CRD 67K miles
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club

i would love to go into it with you - you seem to be real

almost all of the guys i grew up died of lead poisoning, and the others are on the left and most took the path you did, don't let anyone get under your skin about not going into the service. you need to know this - in the groups i have been involved with it has come up many times about the drafted guys, as well as the guys who were looking for any reason not to be in country, they having a different take on being in the zone caused them to be more at risk of losing their lives than the guys who were their for patriotic reasons < they did stupid things i think they were pre octupied and it caused then to make real mistakes and their was no room for them -

as a FNG and someone who was not wanting to do what it took you probly would be on the wall in DC < my take

Anyway -- the guy who runs the open forum has a hardon for me and every week he has given me an infraction so the chances are i will be thrown off the site soon, others have e mailed me telling me seeing what is happening, to contact the owner of the site - i have never been good at contacting authority about anything hahahahahahahahaha --

i will continue to post up to the end -- and if we get into to it i will be banished for sure --- jz

Maybe you should take this opportunity to set your record straight. You gamed the system to exempt yourself from the chance of personal harm by fraudulently claiming Conscientious Objector status. Now you want to have others believe this was somehow a noble act on your part and not the cowardly self-interest that you bemoan people for 30-40 years have rightfully recognized it to be?

On March 8, 1971 the US Supreme Court had already rendered its decision on the constitutionality of the “selective conscientious objection” which you perversely rely upon as your defense.

GILLETTE v. UNITED STATES, 401 U.S. 437 (1971) Holds that,” The exemption for those who oppose "participation in war in any form" applies to those who oppose participating in all war and not to those who object to participation in a particular war only, even if the latter objection is religious in character.”

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=401&invol=437

You have repeatedly made postings regarding your beliefs regarding other wars and your alleged willingness to participate in them and repeatedly confessed the nature of your objections to the Vietnam War! Your own statements convict you plain and simple, you’ve stated that had your time been the American Revolution, WWII or Afghanistan you would have chosen to serve and fight but in actuality when your time came to stand on principle you did not. You’re not opposed to all wars, only the war that would have actually put you at risk. How does that make someone anything other than “a draft dodging coward”?

You state, “Military service is a major coming of age ritual in the US, something I looked forward to and then when it came my time, the war from hell beckoned. Of course it was a signature event in my life.”

“But after 30 - 40 years of being given crap of my own, directly or indirectly, about being some kind of draft dodging coward, I'm disinclined to not speak frankly about my end of the experience.”

Maybe now is the time to reflect and accept that by your own admissions you are not in fact nor ever where ,”a conscientious objector” and abandon your claims that your actions where motivated buy anything but self preservation.

Living that lie of your “signature event in my life” for 37 years has misshapen you; of necessity you’ve constructed a world view to rationalize disgraceful conduct as virtue.

Your response to those who accepted the call to sacrificed life and limb, where you responded with scheme and deceit is:
Shame on you.

Well said. I find it disturbing when those who have never served have the gall to insult those who have. When someone puts their life on the line in the service of their country(regardless of whether history proves the war to be moral or necessary) they should be treated with nothing but respect.

How Vice Presidential this tread is becoming. http://www.rense.com/general52/chenn.htmDid Cheney Dodge
The Draft Five Times?

"[T]he Senator from Massachusetts has given us ample doubts about his judgment and the attitude he brings to bear on vital issues of national security," Vice President Dick Cheney said during a March 17 visit to the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library and Museum. He was talking, of course, about John Kerry, the putative Democratic presidential nominee. During the past three years, we've all become better acquainted with Vice President Cheney's judgment and attitude toward national security, which are a good deal more hawkish than Kerry's. A widely observed irony is that the dovish Kerry saw combat in Vietnam while the hawkish Cheney accepted a series of student and family-related draft deferments. Cheney's unself-consciousness about this is (or at least was) so pronounced that in 1989 he told George C. Wilson of the Washington Post, "I had other priorities in the '60s than military service."

Yeah, former vp D.C. did what he could to get out of serving his country. GWB did serve in the national guard but wanted his own physician to do the yearly required physical, that is prohibited by the air force. So he can say hey, I tried.
CM served in the peace corp 68-70.

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83 SD

84 CD

What a poltroon, I hope his sponsors take notice and he withers away and dies in his time slot!

It's class warfare.

You are referring to Bill OReilly when he accused American Soldiers of war crimes(twice)..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2KU02lsfH8&feature=PlayList&p=3F883C2CE20E94BF&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

Try to stay on topic

I wasn't clear on which poltroon you were speaking about. Was it Beck ? You know there is no proof that he raped and murdered a young girl in 1990 though he has not denied it.

I have NO idea what you're gibbering about, I'm addressing the original topic, just so YOU now, know!

I apologize if my gibberish is not as honed as yours. A few more weeks on Sean Hannity's site and I should be all set.