Right. I wonder if people will ever be able to opt out entirely, i.e. sign a waiver saying they will never be eligible for emergency or other medical services unless they can prove that they have the funds at hand. There are people rich enough that they are able to self-insure.

__________________
1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

Yes, but other civilizations had meens to deal with free loaders. Generally, Americans do not want to follow rules. Then blame others. It fine if its a free ride, or on someone else's dime.
Let's take cell phones and driving as an example. I have no problems with a hand free device. Really no difference between that and talking to a passenger in the car. Actually, it might be safer. I know some who want to maintain eye contact, while you are driving. Really! Now, Germany has seatbelt laws. If you are in an accident, and didn't wear your seatbelt, it's your fault. How about is your in an accident and you were talking on the cell phone, its your fault.
Now take this to healthcare, smoking: higher premiums. How about overweight, higher premiums. Maybe talk to the doctors, drug companies etc. see if they will take a paycut, so we can pay what other industrialized nations pay for health care.
Also Nacy P. reminds me of the Sheri Otteri character on SNL. The one who is always at the pharmacy buying precrition drugs.
Tom

Some comments I heard over night on the news etc. (Not Fox).

"This will change the way we practice medicine."
(I see little change to the practice of medicine in this bill.)

"People are looking at the Medicare and Social Security ponzi scheme"

"Madoff accountting"

"Until our politicians stop paying to the golden relection god and start doing whats right ..."

"does very little to improve the quality of health care, just heatlh care coverage" (something I keep pounding the table about).

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Senator Bayh.
"We used to spend 4 years doing the countries business, and 2 years campaigning. Now it's 6 years campaigning" He never did say when they do the countries business.
His dad was a senator many years ago.

"20 years ago there was 1 filibuster a year, there were 65 last year most used just to delay the process, some voted almost unanamously positive after the filibuster."

"More US citizens believe in UFOs then believe the congress is doing a good job".

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My read on some comments.

They keep pounding the table on this 138 billion saved over 10 years.
Do the math, this isn't even pocket change to the gov, they waste more than that every day (probably every hour).

They intend to eliminate waste in Medicare, geesh why do we need to do this
to eliminate waste, and does anyone really believe that government can eliminate waste in it's own processes much less those it "hires out".

A question I keep raising(as an example of government efficiencies), "the Scooter store", pounds the TV with advertising, can get you a scooter at NO cost to you.
If they can afford all this advertising. their guarantee, make a profit (healthy I bet) getting payments from Medicare and/or insurance something is wrong.

Let's include those government sponsored cell phones.

Fortunately, since I am generally against the bill, most of the good points kick in quickly, most of the troubling parts are pushed off in the future.

Finally, per the Cigna CEO,
Over the past 4 to 5 the number of emergency room visits have quadrupled.
This is for people WITH insurance,
(takes some air out of the uninsured using the ER more arguement, not all but ??)

Cat scan / MRIs have doubled over the past 3 years, basically his response was that the current process (un changed via this bill) does not pay for results. My read, how would you feel if every time your mechanic checked your car he tested everything he could, and charged you for them.

Well enough of my rants.

Oh one more, must be a great bill, Congress opted out ????

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

You guys are getting more like us every day!

Just teasing. I think this bill is a step in the right direction. Something had to be done...even if everyone doesn't agree on every part of this, it's a positive move, IMO. You can iron out the kinks in the years to come.

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Here comes the Twinkie tax !

so it wasnt just me with the Pelosi thing wonder if she missed her meds yesterday? It was the Funniest part of the whole 3 ring they had going !! Almost as good as boner.....Bohners last ditch camera grab screaming at the Dems. It almost looked as if he was going to smile !

Either way its over ! It passed now Nancy can explain the bill in detail .

So alls quiet on the political front................... whats on the agenda next ??
News just said a Bi partisan effort on Immigration reform" 1 million immigrants want Obama to honor his campaign promises "

Never a dull moment in politics !!!

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

Only time will tell I guess......Cant wait to see the size and price of the iron !

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

This is one time it can be said without exaggeration: "it's Bush's fault".

__________________

1983 300D

Isn't that the very essence of insurance?

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

Not a bad thing. There was an interesting column by Paul Krugman a couple of weeks ago giving reasons why the current financial crisis did not hit Canada as hard as many other countries. He attributed it at least partly to the existence of a consumer credit oversight agency in the Canada that the US lacks.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I think it's a great thing, to be honest. But I'm obviously a tad biased.

Yes, that is true. The big banks in Canada also actually kept a profit line during the recession, which was remarkable. US and European banks all reported losses. There are a lot of little differences here that make a big difference overall like mortgages being full recourse loans, not selling out loans to sub-prime borrowers, etc. We have five large banks in particular that control most of the banking in Canada, and during the recession they were able to communicate with each other and keep practices in line. There is also full insurance on mostly all mortgages, which covers the full amount. Although we recently had 40-yr amortization periods, that has been reduced to 35 yrs max and a 5% minimum downpayment is required. The smaller the downpayment on a mortgage, the higher the CMHC insurance premiums to insure the mortgage. I believe that CMHC insurance is mandatory on all mortgages where there is less than a 36% downpayment.

I was surprised to hear that Canadian banks are considered amongst the safest and most stable in the world, I wasn't aware of that before this.

They are continuing to post record profits...it would be nice to see those profits reflected in cheaper banking costs, that's for sure.

__________________
Chris
2007 E550 4Matic - 61,000 Km - Iridium Silver, black leather, Sport package, Premium 2 package
2007 GL450 4Matic - 62,000 Km - Obsidian Black Metallic, black leather, all options
1998 E430 - sold
1989 300E - 333,000 Km - sold
1977 280E - sold
1971 250 - retired

"And a frign hat. They gave me a hat at the annual benefits meeting. I said. how does this benefit me. I dont have anything from the company.. So they gave me a hat." - TheDon

Well I hope it works out, and the bill does have some good parts to it.

But since I'm not poor I suspect its just going to cost me money, and not benifit me at all. Like most government programs.

__________________
2016 Corvette Stingray 2LT
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

The IRS will be in charge of monitoring your insurance status....

How far in debt are you guys to nations like say .....maybe China ? May have a bit to do with it as well .

The mortgage deal is nice makes sense.

How over inflated were the property values ? The property values here in Texas rose only about 2-3 % during the bubble therefore we were able to recover from the housing slump faster. Economy is doing fairly well here.

Lessons learned from the mid 80's housing boom / bust .

__________________


Experience : what you receive 3 seconds after you really needed it !!



86 300SDL 387,000? Motor committed suicide
81 300SD 214,000 "new" 132,000 motor
83 300SD 212,000 parts car
83 300SD 147,000

91 F700 5.9 cummins 5spd eaton 298,000
66 AMC rambler American 2dr auto 108,000
95 Chevy 3/4 ton auto 160,000
03 Toyota 4runner 180,000 wifes

I agree, american financial institutions were allowed to get out of hand and gamble a little too much with other people's money; the results should have been predictable. I just read "A Colossal Failure of Common Sense: The Inside Story of the Collapse of Lehman Brothers" by Lawrence G. McDonald, interesting book.

Regarding health care, I don't know if this bill is the best solution but it is the only solution presented in the last 50 years and it appears better than doing nothing. Having 10s of millions of people using emergency rooms for primary care was not working and was one of the factors increasing costs for the paying customers and insurance companies.

Personally, I don't expect to see any benifts or additional costs. However, I do have a 19 year old with a significant medical condition who would have had trouble finding coverage in a couple of years unless she found a job with a major company. As I understand it, this bill will allow my wife and I to keep her under our coverage for several more years and ensure that she will be able to purchase coverage for herself after that. I assume that many others are in that situation.

I'm just hoping like hell it's not as bad or expensive as I think it will be. Any time I hear a politician say it won't be as expensive as they thought I can't help but think bull$h!t.

I haven't read the bill but listening to a local, Libertarian talking head who, between he and his sister (both lawyers, she also a law professor) have read every single page, thinks it's a nightmare (he is battling Lupus) and has me concerned.

And the next time the Republicans are in control and ram something down the Democrats throats through parliamentary procedure, we'll know where the precedent was set.

__________________

1980 300TD-China Blue/Blue MBTex-2nd Owner, 107K (Alt Blau) OBK #15
'06 Chevy Tahoe Z71 (for the wife & 4 kids, current mule) '03 Honda Odyssey (son #1's ride, reluctantly) '99 GMC Suburban (255K+ miles, semi-retired mule) 21' SeaRay Seville (summer escape pod)